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	<title>Comments on: Dr. Basmullah&#8217;s jailing &#8211; is Ka Ting the worst Acting Health Minister in nation&#8217;s history?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/</link>
	<description>for Malaysia</description>
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		<title>By: laifoong</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75695</link>
		<dc:creator>laifoong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75695</guid>
		<description>aiyaaah...! this fella again! dark horse didn&#039;t say that lar! It was zack...why are you after dark horse all the time...cos he&#039;s smarter than you...lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aiyaaah&#8230;! this fella again! dark horse didn&#8217;t say that lar! It was zack&#8230;why are you after dark horse all the time&#8230;cos he&#8217;s smarter than you&#8230;lol</p>
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		<title>By: limkamput</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75659</link>
		<dc:creator>limkamput</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75659</guid>
		<description>Politicizing the issue? You may have a point. Darkhorse

What nonsense is this? To you every damn thing is politicizing?  Hello, DAP is a political party.  We are not here to talk weather or to exchange pleasantries.  I must tell you to stop belittling DAP for nothing.  Please stop showing your false sense of righteousness all the time.  It is nauseating already.  If DAP does not take up this case, in all likelihood you will also say DAP is not interested in helping a non Chinese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politicizing the issue? You may have a point. Darkhorse</p>
<p>What nonsense is this? To you every damn thing is politicizing?  Hello, DAP is a political party.  We are not here to talk weather or to exchange pleasantries.  I must tell you to stop belittling DAP for nothing.  Please stop showing your false sense of righteousness all the time.  It is nauseating already.  If DAP does not take up this case, in all likelihood you will also say DAP is not interested in helping a non Chinese.</p>
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		<title>By: Lim Kit Siang &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Malaysia we live in today (case of Dr. Basmullah)</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75499</link>
		<dc:creator>Lim Kit Siang &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Malaysia we live in today (case of Dr. Basmullah)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75499</guid>
		<description>[...] by Palmdoc [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by Palmdoc [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75346</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75346</guid>
		<description>We have multi-purpose ministers and ministers with a thousand hands (like Guan Yin) in Malaysia. One minute, he can be Minister of Trade and Industry, the next minute, he may be the Minister of Health. And imagine one person shouldering three or four ministerial posts, Malaysian ministers are SUPERMEN!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have multi-purpose ministers and ministers with a thousand hands (like Guan Yin) in Malaysia. One minute, he can be Minister of Trade and Industry, the next minute, he may be the Minister of Health. And imagine one person shouldering three or four ministerial posts, Malaysian ministers are SUPERMEN!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: palmdoc</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75187</link>
		<dc:creator>palmdoc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75187</guid>
		<description>I agree with you and I have championed it here in
&lt;a href=&quot;http://medicine.com.my/wp/?p=3072&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Malaysia we live in today&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you and I have championed it here in<br />
<a href="http://medicine.com.my/wp/?p=3072" rel="nofollow">The Malaysia we live in today</a></p>
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		<title>By: iyamwhoiyam</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75183</link>
		<dc:creator>iyamwhoiyam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75183</guid>
		<description>raven77 Says: 

Yesterday at 22: 56.18

What a sceneâ€¦â€¦â€¦a wheelchair bound lawyer goes to court to help release a doctor who was jailed because he had no moneyâ€¦â€¦..this is the Malaysia we live in todayâ€¦.

Very well put....c&#039;mon people...let&#039;s champion on this matter....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>raven77 Says: </p>
<p>Yesterday at 22: 56.18</p>
<p>What a sceneâ€¦â€¦â€¦a wheelchair bound lawyer goes to court to help release a doctor who was jailed because he had no moneyâ€¦â€¦..this is the Malaysia we live in todayâ€¦.</p>
<p>Very well put&#8230;.c&#8217;mon people&#8230;let&#8217;s champion on this matter&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: UzMiNoOnist</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75154</link>
		<dc:creator>UzMiNoOnist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75154</guid>
		<description>&quot;As I understand from my doc friends, PHFSA requires clinics to have certain minimum equipment. This means the doc has to buy them whether he needs or not in his setting. Cos of higher costs, this may pass down to his patients which are unnecessary&quot;

Could it be the case where PHFSA is created to benefit some BN cronies by forcing clinics to buy certain equipments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As I understand from my doc friends, PHFSA requires clinics to have certain minimum equipment. This means the doc has to buy them whether he needs or not in his setting. Cos of higher costs, this may pass down to his patients which are unnecessary&#8221;</p>
<p>Could it be the case where PHFSA is created to benefit some BN cronies by forcing clinics to buy certain equipments?</p>
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		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75138</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75138</guid>
		<description>&quot;This issue is not about Dr Basmullah at all â€¦. but about BOGUS DOCTORS. DAP could have a donation drive to pay the fineâ€¦if LKS truly wants to help and NOT politised this non-issue.&quot; zack

What are you saying here?  Are you saying that the doctor was a bogus doctor and not having a license to operate the clinic makes him into one? if that is the case then you&#039;re giving a new meaning to the word &quot;bogus&quot;. Other than that I don&#039;t know what you mean.

Then the second issue you raised is that if LKS is genuinely interested in the welfare of this man and his family, DAP should raise the money to  pay or help to pay for the fine - even though you&#039;re aware that the fine is a hefty $120k?

Politicizing the issue? You may have a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This issue is not about Dr Basmullah at all â€¦. but about BOGUS DOCTORS. DAP could have a donation drive to pay the fineâ€¦if LKS truly wants to help and NOT politised this non-issue.&#8221; zack</p>
<p>What are you saying here?  Are you saying that the doctor was a bogus doctor and not having a license to operate the clinic makes him into one? if that is the case then you&#8217;re giving a new meaning to the word &#8220;bogus&#8221;. Other than that I don&#8217;t know what you mean.</p>
<p>Then the second issue you raised is that if LKS is genuinely interested in the welfare of this man and his family, DAP should raise the money to  pay or help to pay for the fine &#8211; even though you&#8217;re aware that the fine is a hefty $120k?</p>
<p>Politicizing the issue? You may have a point.</p>
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		<title>By: raven77</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75110</link>
		<dc:creator>raven77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75110</guid>
		<description>What a scene.........a wheelchair bound lawyer goes to court to help release a doctor who was jailed because he had no money........this is the Malaysia we live in today....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a scene&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;a wheelchair bound lawyer goes to court to help release a doctor who was jailed because he had no money&#8230;&#8230;..this is the Malaysia we live in today&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: alaneth</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75104</link>
		<dc:creator>alaneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75104</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t blame Ka Ting - he just took the baton from Soi Lek...

But pity the doctors in Malaysia - they are soooo poorly &amp; meagrely paid. They can&#039;t even afford a lawyer...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t blame Ka Ting &#8211; he just took the baton from Soi Lek&#8230;</p>
<p>But pity the doctors in Malaysia &#8211; they are soooo poorly &amp; meagrely paid. They can&#8217;t even afford a lawyer&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: BlackEye</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75070</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackEye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75070</guid>
		<description>DAP should look into the availability of legal aid to indigent clients accused not only of serious offenses like capital crimes but also offenses such as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DAP should look into the availability of legal aid to indigent clients accused not only of serious offenses like capital crimes but also offenses such as this.</p>
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		<title>By: humanly</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75069</link>
		<dc:creator>humanly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75069</guid>
		<description>As I understand from my doc friends, PHFSA requires clinics to have certain minimum equipment. This means the doc has to buy them whether he needs or not in his setting. Cos of higher costs, this may pass down to his patients which are unnecessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I understand from my doc friends, PHFSA requires clinics to have certain minimum equipment. This means the doc has to buy them whether he needs or not in his setting. Cos of higher costs, this may pass down to his patients which are unnecessary.</p>
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		<title>By: BlackEye</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75068</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackEye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75068</guid>
		<description>But like another poster said earlier, he should not have been allowed to proceed to trial without counsel. Why was legal aid not made available to him? Was it because he&#039;s a doctor and not some poor defendant eking a living and could not afford a lawyer?

There are gaps in the information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But like another poster said earlier, he should not have been allowed to proceed to trial without counsel. Why was legal aid not made available to him? Was it because he&#8217;s a doctor and not some poor defendant eking a living and could not afford a lawyer?</p>
<p>There are gaps in the information.</p>
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		<title>By: BlackEye</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75066</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackEye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75066</guid>
		<description>It is all about poor exercise of  sentencing powers, and inconsistent sentencing - unless of course it is mandatory to fine the fine imposed. But then wasn&#039;t the Dr. offered easier terms to avoid spending jail time? I know this is hardly an easier way out but at least that would avoid having to spend three months in jail. It was not a fine and three months&#039; jail.

Having said that certainly RM120k is way out of proportion to the seriousness of the offense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is all about poor exercise of  sentencing powers, and inconsistent sentencing &#8211; unless of course it is mandatory to fine the fine imposed. But then wasn&#8217;t the Dr. offered easier terms to avoid spending jail time? I know this is hardly an easier way out but at least that would avoid having to spend three months in jail. It was not a fine and three months&#8217; jail.</p>
<p>Having said that certainly RM120k is way out of proportion to the seriousness of the offense.</p>
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		<title>By: raven77</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75062</link>
		<dc:creator>raven77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75062</guid>
		<description>How come is OKT guy has not come out with even one statement....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How come is OKT guy has not come out with even one statement&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Short-sleeve</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75055</link>
		<dc:creator>Short-sleeve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75055</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hi Short-sleeve No, you are wrong. Whether Ong Ka Ting is chinese, indian, malay or even african, it does not matter. What is wrong is wrong,â€¦.We are actually community based not moral,ethic or commonsense based.First we must take care of our kind and be strong.Then we can prosper.&quot; - sungaisiput

&quot;Then we can prosper&quot; ... as in our own people??? 50 years of Merdeka and we still have our people and their people type of mentality. Sad actually, very sad indeed.

But I am sorry, you can take your &#039;our people and their people&#039; mentality elsewhere. I am voting for change.

Time for us to be Malaysian first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hi Short-sleeve No, you are wrong. Whether Ong Ka Ting is chinese, indian, malay or even african, it does not matter. What is wrong is wrong,â€¦.We are actually community based not moral,ethic or commonsense based.First we must take care of our kind and be strong.Then we can prosper.&#8221; &#8211; sungaisiput</p>
<p>&#8220;Then we can prosper&#8221; &#8230; as in our own people??? 50 years of Merdeka and we still have our people and their people type of mentality. Sad actually, very sad indeed.</p>
<p>But I am sorry, you can take your &#8216;our people and their people&#8217; mentality elsewhere. I am voting for change.</p>
<p>Time for us to be Malaysian first.</p>
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		<title>By: raven77</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75053</link>
		<dc:creator>raven77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75053</guid>
		<description>Poor OKT...now he has to clean up the shit left by porn star Chua Soi Lek....but that he can do by sacking the moronic Ismail Merican and his nincompoops......OKT is clearly trying to lie low and hope the whole thing will pass...but the opposition and all doctors and perhaps some of their patients are not going to forget this in the election........if OKT is not going to throw out the moron who drafted this law.....then both OKT and brother must be thrown out....every doctor in this country must endeavour to ascertain that these sought of politicians are wiped off the face of Malaysia.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor OKT&#8230;now he has to clean up the shit left by porn star Chua Soi Lek&#8230;.but that he can do by sacking the moronic Ismail Merican and his nincompoops&#8230;&#8230;OKT is clearly trying to lie low and hope the whole thing will pass&#8230;but the opposition and all doctors and perhaps some of their patients are not going to forget this in the election&#8230;&#8230;..if OKT is not going to throw out the moron who drafted this law&#8230;..then both OKT and brother must be thrown out&#8230;.every doctor in this country must endeavour to ascertain that these sought of politicians are wiped off the face of Malaysia&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: mob1900</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75048</link>
		<dc:creator>mob1900</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75048</guid>
		<description>Is there a summon or jail for Bogus Min. of Health?
I deemed it more dangerous and a threat to public healthcare when we have a inept person sitting on a critical position such as Ong Nothing. He should be the one put in Kj Prison!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a summon or jail for Bogus Min. of Health?<br />
I deemed it more dangerous and a threat to public healthcare when we have a inept person sitting on a critical position such as Ong Nothing. He should be the one put in Kj Prison!</p>
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		<title>By: tuanlokong</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75046</link>
		<dc:creator>tuanlokong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75046</guid>
		<description>Sad to say he could have save 10 lives by now... :((</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad to say he could have save 10 lives by now&#8230; :((</p>
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		<title>By: madmix</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/comment-page-1/#comment-75029</link>
		<dc:creator>madmix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/02/05/dr-basmullahs-jailing-is-ka-ting-the-worst-acting-health-minister-in-nations-history/#comment-75029</guid>
		<description>Actually, when a sentence has been passed by  a court and there is no appeal, what can a minister do? can he interfere with a judicial decision? Perhaps lawyers out there can answer this. 
The doctor had pleaded guilty, which he should not have in the first place. He did not appeal the sentence passed. So what can be done legally?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, when a sentence has been passed by  a court and there is no appeal, what can a minister do? can he interfere with a judicial decision? Perhaps lawyers out there can answer this.<br />
The doctor had pleaded guilty, which he should not have in the first place. He did not appeal the sentence passed. So what can be done legally?</p>
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