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	<title>Comments on: DAP-PKR seats talks too slow &#8211; must be wrapped up by end-Jan as polls in 40 days</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/</link>
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		<title>By: sotong</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-73128</link>
		<dc:creator>sotong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-73128</guid>
		<description>Most non bumi are very independent and resourceful. They do not rely on the government for their success.....irrespective of who is in government, they will not benefit much from the handouts.

The country needs an urgent radical reform of the government administration to ensure its stability, integrity and prosperity in the long term. 

To vote for real change, one needs to vote Opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most non bumi are very independent and resourceful. They do not rely on the government for their success&#8230;..irrespective of who is in government, they will not benefit much from the handouts.</p>
<p>The country needs an urgent radical reform of the government administration to ensure its stability, integrity and prosperity in the long term. </p>
<p>To vote for real change, one needs to vote Opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: azam</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72996</link>
		<dc:creator>azam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 05:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72996</guid>
		<description>Dawsheng;
Very unfair for u take Islam word from SIS or anti-hadith group. Same thing very unfair for me to jugde Chritianity from the eye of Yehovah Withnesses. Very unfair for me to judge Hindu from Saif Baba perspective.
You keep on talking about differences. What is your objectives? Why don&#039;t you talk about similarities. I&#039;m quite sure that the similarities are plenty to discuss. I&#039;m quite sure that if we can understand each other, that better for future generation.
As I state previously, PAS never ask you and DAP to change your vision, mission and struggle. PAS respect the differences. 
Taking Kelantan as example. The operating procedure introduce by the state goverment never devided based on religion. Skim Kifalah insurans give the benifit to everybody died more than 60 years old. Every chinese got problem such as house burn or flood will be help sama as malay. Even the scholarship give by this poor state to all the Kelantanese including the chinese. You can ask YB Ng Yen Yen Deputy of Miniter from MCA. She was the one who recieved the scholarship from Kelantan State during medical study.
The land act also implement fair for Kelantan people without see the race. The malay or chinese from out site Kelantan, if they want to buy land in Kelantan, it should be through State Exco. That&#039;s why the hindu very much agree that Kelantan state gave the primier land in the middle of Kota Bharu for them to built tample. The issues of land, my dear brother, can not hide the picture of PAS if PAS truly anti other religion. 
What do you say?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawsheng;<br />
Very unfair for u take Islam word from SIS or anti-hadith group. Same thing very unfair for me to jugde Chritianity from the eye of Yehovah Withnesses. Very unfair for me to judge Hindu from Saif Baba perspective.<br />
You keep on talking about differences. What is your objectives? Why don&#8217;t you talk about similarities. I&#8217;m quite sure that the similarities are plenty to discuss. I&#8217;m quite sure that if we can understand each other, that better for future generation.<br />
As I state previously, PAS never ask you and DAP to change your vision, mission and struggle. PAS respect the differences.<br />
Taking Kelantan as example. The operating procedure introduce by the state goverment never devided based on religion. Skim Kifalah insurans give the benifit to everybody died more than 60 years old. Every chinese got problem such as house burn or flood will be help sama as malay. Even the scholarship give by this poor state to all the Kelantanese including the chinese. You can ask YB Ng Yen Yen Deputy of Miniter from MCA. She was the one who recieved the scholarship from Kelantan State during medical study.<br />
The land act also implement fair for Kelantan people without see the race. The malay or chinese from out site Kelantan, if they want to buy land in Kelantan, it should be through State Exco. That&#8217;s why the hindu very much agree that Kelantan state gave the primier land in the middle of Kota Bharu for them to built tample. The issues of land, my dear brother, can not hide the picture of PAS if PAS truly anti other religion.<br />
What do you say?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: LadyGodiva</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72857</link>
		<dc:creator>LadyGodiva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72857</guid>
		<description>What bottle??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What bottle??</p>
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		<title>By: dawsheng</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72820</link>
		<dc:creator>dawsheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72820</guid>
		<description>It may also be a case of illusion, where some people see the bottle as full when in fact the bottle is empty. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may also be a case of illusion, where some people see the bottle as full when in fact the bottle is empty. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Godfather</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72774</link>
		<dc:creator>Godfather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72774</guid>
		<description>I guess it is a case of some of us looking at the bottle as half empty, and some looking at it as half full.  Let&#039;s move on to other threads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it is a case of some of us looking at the bottle as half empty, and some looking at it as half full.  Let&#8217;s move on to other threads.</p>
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		<title>By: Loh</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72758</link>
		<dc:creator>Loh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72758</guid>
		<description>The above news item was copied from Malaysia Today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above news item was copied from Malaysia Today.</p>
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		<title>By: Loh</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72735</link>
		<dc:creator>Loh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72735</guid>
		<description>///Umno needs a fresh mandate from the people in the soon-to-be-held general election to provide continuity to the Malay agenda struggle, party information chief Tan Sri Muhammad Muhammad Taib said.

With the new mandate, he said, the Barisan Nasional (BN) government helmed by Umno could pursue programmes to upgrade the socio-economic well-being of the Malays///

He spoke as though Malaysia belongs only to Malays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>///Umno needs a fresh mandate from the people in the soon-to-be-held general election to provide continuity to the Malay agenda struggle, party information chief Tan Sri Muhammad Muhammad Taib said.</p>
<p>With the new mandate, he said, the Barisan Nasional (BN) government helmed by Umno could pursue programmes to upgrade the socio-economic well-being of the Malays///</p>
<p>He spoke as though Malaysia belongs only to Malays.</p>
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		<title>By: alaneth</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72711</link>
		<dc:creator>alaneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72711</guid>
		<description>We are debating too deep here into the technicalities of coalition, fear of Islamisation, etc etc...

But the non-Muslim mindset is simple which will show in the elections. Whatever parties contest, they will vote the more pro-Liberal, pro-Secular, anti-Fanatism, anti-Extremism regardless of whatever party contests.

Of course Khir Toyo &amp; Ali Rustam&#039;s extremist policies will not go down well with non-Muslims. Tajol Rosli, Adnan Yaakob, Mohd Hassan will fare better......

If no good choice then spoilt votes will increase or they may not even bother to vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are debating too deep here into the technicalities of coalition, fear of Islamisation, etc etc&#8230;</p>
<p>But the non-Muslim mindset is simple which will show in the elections. Whatever parties contest, they will vote the more pro-Liberal, pro-Secular, anti-Fanatism, anti-Extremism regardless of whatever party contests.</p>
<p>Of course Khir Toyo &amp; Ali Rustam&#8217;s extremist policies will not go down well with non-Muslims. Tajol Rosli, Adnan Yaakob, Mohd Hassan will fare better&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>If no good choice then spoilt votes will increase or they may not even bother to vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72690</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 03:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72690</guid>
		<description>Godfather, my response to you comments is &quot;awaiting moderation&quot;. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Godfather, my response to you comments is &#8220;awaiting moderation&#8221;. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72689</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 03:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72689</guid>
		<description>//why the comment regarding a PAS-led Opposition ? Canâ€™t it be a DAP led Opposition or a equal partners Opposition ?// - Godfather

The reason: in this country with current 60% population and growing at a faster rate than others, I assume rightly or wrongly, the reality that a Malay/Muslim based political party, whether UMNO or Pas, will lead the show, with Malay political dominance being the main political  leitmotif, it being extremely hard for me to conceive DAP led Opposition or a equal partners Opposition will be allowed to come to power and run the country.

In the other situation, I don&#039;t really subscribe to Lim Kam Put&#039;s suggestion that non-Muslims could become the â€œswingâ€ votes between PAS and UMNO, and that it is equally possible that either party may become more liberal in order to secure their positions because that presupposes that non Malay votes/constitutencies are significant in number and critical factor especially over time  whereas it is my expectation that over time with the comparative higher Malay birth rates (not to mention influx of Indonesians) and migration of Non Malays plus the gerrymandering that is going on, non Malay votes/constitutencies will get less and less significant in overall political equation. (Even now how many non Malay seats in Parliament can they get if they all vote for one party instead of being fragmented - maybe 30%?  If I were right, then the Malay votes/constitutencies will get more and more important in proportion to the Islamisation theme competed for by the 2 Malay based parties. I don&#039;t think principles of liberal democratic government count that much for the majority group because otherwise PKR would have done much better than with just 1 Federal seat and to have to depend on PAS competing with UMNO for the Malay ground. This would be the same reason making it not a big issue to either UMNO nor PAS in response to the other point you made - ie that &quot;UMNO may compete with PAS to be even more Islamic in order to win back the Malay votes, but what can they do without the 2/3rd majority ? It will be the death knell for the non-Muslim parties in the BN coalition (meaning it will implode). 
Rustam Ali of Malaca - and one poster here Shamsul Anuar - made this point that UMNO can run the show without any of the non Malay component parties if push comes to shove and bottom line. Presently it still maintains the facade of &#039; power sharing&#039; just to give the world the impression that its group is representative of plural Malaysia which is small price, as long as everyone knows who&#039;s boss. They are not worried about implosion as in sense of BN component parties ceasing to be relevant or leaving BN fold due to intense Islamisation. They are only woried of implosion, if it occurs, within UMNO.
, even as I   that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>//why the comment regarding a PAS-led Opposition ? Canâ€™t it be a DAP led Opposition or a equal partners Opposition ?// &#8211; Godfather</p>
<p>The reason: in this country with current 60% population and growing at a faster rate than others, I assume rightly or wrongly, the reality that a Malay/Muslim based political party, whether UMNO or Pas, will lead the show, with Malay political dominance being the main political  leitmotif, it being extremely hard for me to conceive DAP led Opposition or a equal partners Opposition will be allowed to come to power and run the country.</p>
<p>In the other situation, I don&#8217;t really subscribe to Lim Kam Put&#8217;s suggestion that non-Muslims could become the â€œswingâ€ votes between PAS and UMNO, and that it is equally possible that either party may become more liberal in order to secure their positions because that presupposes that non Malay votes/constitutencies are significant in number and critical factor especially over time  whereas it is my expectation that over time with the comparative higher Malay birth rates (not to mention influx of Indonesians) and migration of Non Malays plus the gerrymandering that is going on, non Malay votes/constitutencies will get less and less significant in overall political equation. (Even now how many non Malay seats in Parliament can they get if they all vote for one party instead of being fragmented &#8211; maybe 30%?  If I were right, then the Malay votes/constitutencies will get more and more important in proportion to the Islamisation theme competed for by the 2 Malay based parties. I don&#8217;t think principles of liberal democratic government count that much for the majority group because otherwise PKR would have done much better than with just 1 Federal seat and to have to depend on PAS competing with UMNO for the Malay ground. This would be the same reason making it not a big issue to either UMNO nor PAS in response to the other point you made &#8211; ie that &#8220;UMNO may compete with PAS to be even more Islamic in order to win back the Malay votes, but what can they do without the 2/3rd majority ? It will be the death knell for the non-Muslim parties in the BN coalition (meaning it will implode).<br />
Rustam Ali of Malaca &#8211; and one poster here Shamsul Anuar &#8211; made this point that UMNO can run the show without any of the non Malay component parties if push comes to shove and bottom line. Presently it still maintains the facade of &#8216; power sharing&#8217; just to give the world the impression that its group is representative of plural Malaysia which is small price, as long as everyone knows who&#8217;s boss. They are not worried about implosion as in sense of BN component parties ceasing to be relevant or leaving BN fold due to intense Islamisation. They are only woried of implosion, if it occurs, within UMNO.<br />
, even as I   that</p>
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		<title>By: dawsheng</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72687</link>
		<dc:creator>dawsheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 03:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72687</guid>
		<description>&quot;UMNO may compete with PAS to be even more Islamic in order to win back the Malay votes, but what can they do without the 2/3rds majority ? It will be the death knell for the non-Muslim parties in the BN coalition.&quot;

Once the competition between UMNO and PAS intensifies it will be the death knell for any non-muslims party in any coalition. In current situation, MCA, Gerakan, MIC are losing non-muslims supports in the BN coalition because UMNO&#039;s religious bigotry, trying to outdo PAS to maintain Malay-muslims supporters base. 

To expect UMNO and PAS to become more liberal after receiving swing votes from the non-muslims will be naive, as history has shown that it will be the contrary. Has UMNO become more liberal after 50 years? PAS&#039;s current soft approach is just a tactic to fish for non-muslims votes. 

Can MCA/Gerakan/MIC/PPP led the BN coalition? A DAP led or equal partners opposition is not possible this general election but depending on the result DAP may lead the opposition in 2011 or 2012, provided non-muslims did not vote for PAS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;UMNO may compete with PAS to be even more Islamic in order to win back the Malay votes, but what can they do without the 2/3rds majority ? It will be the death knell for the non-Muslim parties in the BN coalition.&#8221;</p>
<p>Once the competition between UMNO and PAS intensifies it will be the death knell for any non-muslims party in any coalition. In current situation, MCA, Gerakan, MIC are losing non-muslims supports in the BN coalition because UMNO&#8217;s religious bigotry, trying to outdo PAS to maintain Malay-muslims supporters base. </p>
<p>To expect UMNO and PAS to become more liberal after receiving swing votes from the non-muslims will be naive, as history has shown that it will be the contrary. Has UMNO become more liberal after 50 years? PAS&#8217;s current soft approach is just a tactic to fish for non-muslims votes. </p>
<p>Can MCA/Gerakan/MIC/PPP led the BN coalition? A DAP led or equal partners opposition is not possible this general election but depending on the result DAP may lead the opposition in 2011 or 2012, provided non-muslims did not vote for PAS.</p>
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		<title>By: Godfather</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72684</link>
		<dc:creator>Godfather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72684</guid>
		<description>Jeffrey:

An Opposition led victory is a myth.  The other scenario of the Opposition denying the thieves the two-thirds majority is what we should aim for.  UMNO may compete with PAS to be even more Islamic in order to win back the Malay votes, but what can they do without the 2/3rds majority ?  It will be the death knell for the non-Muslim parties in the BN coalition.  

As Limkamput pointed out in one of his comments earlier, the non-Muslims could become the &quot;swing&quot; votes between PAS and UMNO, and that it is equally possible that either party may become more liberal in order to secure their positions.  

Lastly, why the comment regarding a PAS-led Opposition ?  Can&#039;t it be a DAP led Opposition or a equal partners Opposition ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey:</p>
<p>An Opposition led victory is a myth.  The other scenario of the Opposition denying the thieves the two-thirds majority is what we should aim for.  UMNO may compete with PAS to be even more Islamic in order to win back the Malay votes, but what can they do without the 2/3rds majority ?  It will be the death knell for the non-Muslim parties in the BN coalition.  </p>
<p>As Limkamput pointed out in one of his comments earlier, the non-Muslims could become the &#8220;swing&#8221; votes between PAS and UMNO, and that it is equally possible that either party may become more liberal in order to secure their positions.  </p>
<p>Lastly, why the comment regarding a PAS-led Opposition ?  Can&#8217;t it be a DAP led Opposition or a equal partners Opposition ?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72679</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 01:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72679</guid>
		<description>But in the other scenario of PAS led Opposition failing to win sufficient seats to form govt but make sufficient inroads to deprive BN 2/3, would the UMNO led BN, in an attempt to rectify loss of support become more democratic and acountable as people wish here or the other way, to islamise further the administration in a bid to win back Malay ground lost by competing more with PAS&#039;s winning formula?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But in the other scenario of PAS led Opposition failing to win sufficient seats to form govt but make sufficient inroads to deprive BN 2/3, would the UMNO led BN, in an attempt to rectify loss of support become more democratic and acountable as people wish here or the other way, to islamise further the administration in a bid to win back Malay ground lost by competing more with PAS&#8217;s winning formula?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72644</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72644</guid>
		<description>In an opposition led victory, how can DAP still assert its pluralistic/secular agenda - and yet remain and share power and have a part to play in the new government -  when the politically Malay dominant senior partner main raison de etre is to form the Islamic state/government and change the Constitution to a Sharia based one, and Anwar/PKR for the sake of Anwar&#039;s position as nominal head, does not back the DAP&#039;s agenda and instead go along with PAS? 

If Anwar/PKR did not back DAP years back when it split from BA over PAS&#039;s theocratic policy why would Anwar/PKR  back DAP when power is finally attained by and within grasp of PAS led Opposition?

Not backed what do you expect DAP to do? If it sticks to its guns, it will have again to leave to bark as a lone opposition against an Islamofacist government like the way it did in the past against UMNO led BN.

What will happen to UMNO by then in the opposition have to do to win back power principally from Maly votes? 

If they are not already incarcerated by PAS govt in the name of the Almighty (since no ISA by then) and if they are afforded democratic leeway to contest the New Opposition PAS led govt, UMNO will probably have to come out with further programs to further compete and outislamise PASâ€™s theocratic state - which DAP cannot even join or collaborate if that were the reason it was kicked out or had left the new BA PAS led government! 

Well the DAP would revert to its previous role as a &quot;barking&quot; opposition except that it is alone barking this time around since UMNO opposition is dedicated to further compete in Islamisation with PAS led/Anwar Govt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In an opposition led victory, how can DAP still assert its pluralistic/secular agenda &#8211; and yet remain and share power and have a part to play in the new government &#8211;  when the politically Malay dominant senior partner main raison de etre is to form the Islamic state/government and change the Constitution to a Sharia based one, and Anwar/PKR for the sake of Anwar&#8217;s position as nominal head, does not back the DAP&#8217;s agenda and instead go along with PAS? </p>
<p>If Anwar/PKR did not back DAP years back when it split from BA over PAS&#8217;s theocratic policy why would Anwar/PKR  back DAP when power is finally attained by and within grasp of PAS led Opposition?</p>
<p>Not backed what do you expect DAP to do? If it sticks to its guns, it will have again to leave to bark as a lone opposition against an Islamofacist government like the way it did in the past against UMNO led BN.</p>
<p>What will happen to UMNO by then in the opposition have to do to win back power principally from Maly votes? </p>
<p>If they are not already incarcerated by PAS govt in the name of the Almighty (since no ISA by then) and if they are afforded democratic leeway to contest the New Opposition PAS led govt, UMNO will probably have to come out with further programs to further compete and outislamise PASâ€™s theocratic state &#8211; which DAP cannot even join or collaborate if that were the reason it was kicked out or had left the new BA PAS led government! </p>
<p>Well the DAP would revert to its previous role as a &#8220;barking&#8221; opposition except that it is alone barking this time around since UMNO opposition is dedicated to further compete in Islamisation with PAS led/Anwar Govt.</p>
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		<title>By: dawsheng</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72642</link>
		<dc:creator>dawsheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72642</guid>
		<description>Politics is an art of deception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politics is an art of deception.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72639</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72639</guid>
		<description>Anwar/PKR weakest amongst opposition parties (with only 1 Parliamentary seat held by Dr. Wan Azizah Ismail from 9% of total votes based on last election) compared to PAS  (15.2% of votes under represented due to gerrymandering with 7 seats in parliament) and DAP, presently the largest Opposition Party, also under represented due to gerrymandering with 12 parliamentary seats and 21 state seats. 

Anwarâ€™s &amp; PASâ€™s respective gameplans â€“

1.	for time being from position of weakness, Anwar has to  basically tap on PAS Malay support &amp; DAPâ€™s Chinese support holding balance between them. 

2.	Way to do with DAP is to convince DAP that it needs PKR because of reality of Malay political dominance so that DAP has to declare collaboration with PKR by electoral pact if and since it cannot do so with PAS and if and even Anwar does a back to back pact with PAS on the other side.

3.	Pursuant to Anwar/DAP pact, let DAP make its bid in Penang (long time ambition of DAP)for control of state govt and as trade off, make a bid for sharing of some DAPâ€™s seats in Perak and elsewhere to gain  on its own more seats at DAPâ€™s expense. Here DAP is taking risk in Penang for their Voters may give DAP Parliamentary seats but not necessarily state seats to control state govt. In exchange for something not certain in Penang (wrestling over control of state govt) DAP sacrifices a few seats to Anwar/PKR elsewhere, in process strengthening him/it.      

4.	Anwar however plays the card of telling non-Malays to win their confidence that heâ€™s against extremist race based NEP and religious extremism. In spite of being against religious extremism theocracy, he inconsistently collaborates with the other side with PAS because he needs them to get top post when new govt formed.

5.	Meanwhile PAS for the time being assumes a less fanatical face to ameliorate non Malay concerns. Using Kelantan as show case, it tries to show its religious tolerance. Chinese are a small minority in Malay rural heartland controlled by PAS that it can temporarily afford to give equal treatment to both Muslims and non-Muslims and show greater tolerance. (This is but a small price, temporary at that, to pay to gain the support of the more numerous Chinese in other states who are unhappy with the BNâ€™s racial policies and corruption). It also tries to use Anwar to garner Malay voters antithetical against UMNO but are too moderate to support PAS directly. 

6.	The pact (Anwar/PAS) is if Opposition wins, PAS will dominate and run the new govt with Anwar as the nominal head. Anwar here rides on a tiger (of Islamofacist party like PAS) just like Lee Kuan Yew initially did on back of Communist/Socialist support to come to power and later see how it could tame it but PAS calculates that it will tame Anwar instead. PAS, once ensconced in seat of power, can discard its liberal pretensions and assert its more Islamic face/agenda to complete the Islamisation of Malaysia from point where UMNO last left off. To buttress its strength it will offer the UMNOputras sharing the dream of an Islamic State to cross over and join the PAS dominated government subject to their toeing PASâ€™s politics.  Anwar will be given the olive branch that he/PKR too would shed some liberal pretension to compromise with PASâ€™s Islamic agenda in exchange for top seat, a nominal one controlled from behind by PAS, something not a great deal to Anwar since he shared same ideological pinning with Islamic Cause since his ABIM days. This is what Dawsheng probably meant when he commented &quot;Where PAS go PKR will also go but as partners. Where DAP go PKR and PAS can also go but as contenders&quot; unless I may add that DAP relent to play the parallel subordinate second fiddle role as MCA/MIC/Gerakan play in relation to dominat UMNO, beholden to dominant malay/muslim party PAS (for the crumbs of some positions in government) ostensibly to represent non muslims interest in a full fledged Islamic theocratic state. This is provided that DAP shed or tone down its pluralistic agenda and offers no resistance to PASâ€™s Islamic state and its agenda. It is a condition precedent to DAP to share crumbs of power in a PAS dominated government dedicated to Islam, nominally led by Anwar. With power, PAS could then execute its agenda to change the Federal Constitution presently based on sovereignty of man made laws to one based on God made divine laws (of course with certain concessions to Non Muslim minorities).

This is the likely scenario if for some fortuitous events lead to a PAS led Opposition winning the elections and in position to form government ie if the win and transfer of power by BN were not disrupted and thwarted by any untowward incident parallel to 5/13 to justify why the results of election not being carried out in the name of national interests.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anwar/PKR weakest amongst opposition parties (with only 1 Parliamentary seat held by Dr. Wan Azizah Ismail from 9% of total votes based on last election) compared to PAS  (15.2% of votes under represented due to gerrymandering with 7 seats in parliament) and DAP, presently the largest Opposition Party, also under represented due to gerrymandering with 12 parliamentary seats and 21 state seats. </p>
<p>Anwarâ€™s &amp; PASâ€™s respective gameplans â€“</p>
<p>1.	for time being from position of weakness, Anwar has to  basically tap on PAS Malay support &amp; DAPâ€™s Chinese support holding balance between them. </p>
<p>2.	Way to do with DAP is to convince DAP that it needs PKR because of reality of Malay political dominance so that DAP has to declare collaboration with PKR by electoral pact if and since it cannot do so with PAS and if and even Anwar does a back to back pact with PAS on the other side.</p>
<p>3.	Pursuant to Anwar/DAP pact, let DAP make its bid in Penang (long time ambition of DAP)for control of state govt and as trade off, make a bid for sharing of some DAPâ€™s seats in Perak and elsewhere to gain  on its own more seats at DAPâ€™s expense. Here DAP is taking risk in Penang for their Voters may give DAP Parliamentary seats but not necessarily state seats to control state govt. In exchange for something not certain in Penang (wrestling over control of state govt) DAP sacrifices a few seats to Anwar/PKR elsewhere, in process strengthening him/it.      </p>
<p>4.	Anwar however plays the card of telling non-Malays to win their confidence that heâ€™s against extremist race based NEP and religious extremism. In spite of being against religious extremism theocracy, he inconsistently collaborates with the other side with PAS because he needs them to get top post when new govt formed.</p>
<p>5.	Meanwhile PAS for the time being assumes a less fanatical face to ameliorate non Malay concerns. Using Kelantan as show case, it tries to show its religious tolerance. Chinese are a small minority in Malay rural heartland controlled by PAS that it can temporarily afford to give equal treatment to both Muslims and non-Muslims and show greater tolerance. (This is but a small price, temporary at that, to pay to gain the support of the more numerous Chinese in other states who are unhappy with the BNâ€™s racial policies and corruption). It also tries to use Anwar to garner Malay voters antithetical against UMNO but are too moderate to support PAS directly. </p>
<p>6.	The pact (Anwar/PAS) is if Opposition wins, PAS will dominate and run the new govt with Anwar as the nominal head. Anwar here rides on a tiger (of Islamofacist party like PAS) just like Lee Kuan Yew initially did on back of Communist/Socialist support to come to power and later see how it could tame it but PAS calculates that it will tame Anwar instead. PAS, once ensconced in seat of power, can discard its liberal pretensions and assert its more Islamic face/agenda to complete the Islamisation of Malaysia from point where UMNO last left off. To buttress its strength it will offer the UMNOputras sharing the dream of an Islamic State to cross over and join the PAS dominated government subject to their toeing PASâ€™s politics.  Anwar will be given the olive branch that he/PKR too would shed some liberal pretension to compromise with PASâ€™s Islamic agenda in exchange for top seat, a nominal one controlled from behind by PAS, something not a great deal to Anwar since he shared same ideological pinning with Islamic Cause since his ABIM days. This is what Dawsheng probably meant when he commented &#8220;Where PAS go PKR will also go but as partners. Where DAP go PKR and PAS can also go but as contenders&#8221; unless I may add that DAP relent to play the parallel subordinate second fiddle role as MCA/MIC/Gerakan play in relation to dominat UMNO, beholden to dominant malay/muslim party PAS (for the crumbs of some positions in government) ostensibly to represent non muslims interest in a full fledged Islamic theocratic state. This is provided that DAP shed or tone down its pluralistic agenda and offers no resistance to PASâ€™s Islamic state and its agenda. It is a condition precedent to DAP to share crumbs of power in a PAS dominated government dedicated to Islam, nominally led by Anwar. With power, PAS could then execute its agenda to change the Federal Constitution presently based on sovereignty of man made laws to one based on God made divine laws (of course with certain concessions to Non Muslim minorities).</p>
<p>This is the likely scenario if for some fortuitous events lead to a PAS led Opposition winning the elections and in position to form government ie if the win and transfer of power by BN were not disrupted and thwarted by any untowward incident parallel to 5/13 to justify why the results of election not being carried out in the name of national interests&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: alaneth</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72630</link>
		<dc:creator>alaneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72630</guid>
		<description>But for a Tribute to Dr.Chua Soi Lek, I feel DAP should NOT contest in his area Labis. 

DAP supporters or not, Dr.Chua is a very good man who&#039;s kind deeds  lived in the hearts of many Chinese. 

It is most gentlemanly that I propose DAP not to contest in his ex-seat as a goodwill gesture to him. This gentleman move by DAP in just the Labis seat will capture the hearts of the people of Johor and will cause an overwhelming support for DAP elsewhere in Johor, whereby MCA supporters will salute DAP &amp; may even switch to vote DAP. Do it &amp; announce it. Not only Johor, the whole of Malaysia will salute you &amp; give better support.

Take my advice DAP &amp; show the nation that politics is not dirty &amp; greedy but be the first party to go down into history that is a gentleman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But for a Tribute to Dr.Chua Soi Lek, I feel DAP should NOT contest in his area Labis. </p>
<p>DAP supporters or not, Dr.Chua is a very good man who&#8217;s kind deeds  lived in the hearts of many Chinese. </p>
<p>It is most gentlemanly that I propose DAP not to contest in his ex-seat as a goodwill gesture to him. This gentleman move by DAP in just the Labis seat will capture the hearts of the people of Johor and will cause an overwhelming support for DAP elsewhere in Johor, whereby MCA supporters will salute DAP &amp; may even switch to vote DAP. Do it &amp; announce it. Not only Johor, the whole of Malaysia will salute you &amp; give better support.</p>
<p>Take my advice DAP &amp; show the nation that politics is not dirty &amp; greedy but be the first party to go down into history that is a gentleman.</p>
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		<title>By: alaneth</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72625</link>
		<dc:creator>alaneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72625</guid>
		<description>Chinese people around the world would like a peaceful environment to make money, doing business &amp; making more money. A peaceful=stable govt that do not restrict the environment to make money.  With this respect, many will vote for stability = BN. 

However, many are also upset over the &#039;stable&#039; govt but not providing the best environment for making money. 

For sure, a vote for DAP, even if DAP wins as many seats that one can ever dream of, BN will also rule, 99% likely with 2/3 majority, 100% with majority.

So business-wise = Either BN or DAP is OK.

But looking into the other issues happening like the non-muslim corpse snatching, banning lion dance in SMBU4, lock-down on beer ads, Islam Hadhari which indirectly affects non-muslims, Chinese schools, etc etc...... if MCA/Gerakan wins big = allys of UMNO = situation getting worse.

So this time round I expect votes for DAP will increase tremendously. 

I predict this time round in GE 2008, this may happen :

1. Uncle Lim will retain Ipoh Timur with bigger majority.
2. Same for Karpal Singh
3. More Parlimentary Seats for DAp - possibly 15-20.
4. Penangnites will still chose Gerakan for State &amp; DAP for Parliment, with an increase of the latter.
5. Big change for Melaka - much more state &amp; parlimentary seats will go to DAP due to Chinese fed-up with Ali Rustam&#039;s closing down pig farms, ban beer ads &amp; too Islamic in all his ways.
6. BN may still lose Kelantan. The people there have deeply rooted into mini-Afghanistan&#039;s taliban rule. Those who oppose have mostly migrated out to KL, JB or elsewhere.
7. Johor may see a breakthru - a first DAP state or parlimentary seat to DAP.
8. Selangor &amp; NS will see more new seats going to DAP.

All these I predict from the support of Malaysian Chinese from:
a) The Sanggang By-Election effect. Higher majority.
b) The Sarawak state elections - DAP won big there. A little known secret why DAP won unexpectedly big there... it is not only about land issues. Remember the Sarawak Tribune which was BANNED by the Federal govt just before the elections?  Well, that is a widely read newspaper by the Chinese in Sarawak.!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chinese people around the world would like a peaceful environment to make money, doing business &amp; making more money. A peaceful=stable govt that do not restrict the environment to make money.  With this respect, many will vote for stability = BN. </p>
<p>However, many are also upset over the &#8216;stable&#8217; govt but not providing the best environment for making money. </p>
<p>For sure, a vote for DAP, even if DAP wins as many seats that one can ever dream of, BN will also rule, 99% likely with 2/3 majority, 100% with majority.</p>
<p>So business-wise = Either BN or DAP is OK.</p>
<p>But looking into the other issues happening like the non-muslim corpse snatching, banning lion dance in SMBU4, lock-down on beer ads, Islam Hadhari which indirectly affects non-muslims, Chinese schools, etc etc&#8230;&#8230; if MCA/Gerakan wins big = allys of UMNO = situation getting worse.</p>
<p>So this time round I expect votes for DAP will increase tremendously. </p>
<p>I predict this time round in GE 2008, this may happen :</p>
<p>1. Uncle Lim will retain Ipoh Timur with bigger majority.<br />
2. Same for Karpal Singh<br />
3. More Parlimentary Seats for DAp &#8211; possibly 15-20.<br />
4. Penangnites will still chose Gerakan for State &amp; DAP for Parliment, with an increase of the latter.<br />
5. Big change for Melaka &#8211; much more state &amp; parlimentary seats will go to DAP due to Chinese fed-up with Ali Rustam&#8217;s closing down pig farms, ban beer ads &amp; too Islamic in all his ways.<br />
6. BN may still lose Kelantan. The people there have deeply rooted into mini-Afghanistan&#8217;s taliban rule. Those who oppose have mostly migrated out to KL, JB or elsewhere.<br />
7. Johor may see a breakthru &#8211; a first DAP state or parlimentary seat to DAP.<br />
8. Selangor &amp; NS will see more new seats going to DAP.</p>
<p>All these I predict from the support of Malaysian Chinese from:<br />
a) The Sanggang By-Election effect. Higher majority.<br />
b) The Sarawak state elections &#8211; DAP won big there. A little known secret why DAP won unexpectedly big there&#8230; it is not only about land issues. Remember the Sarawak Tribune which was BANNED by the Federal govt just before the elections?  Well, that is a widely read newspaper by the Chinese in Sarawak.!</p>
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		<title>By: dawsheng</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72621</link>
		<dc:creator>dawsheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72621</guid>
		<description>Anwar have two friends, one is Guan Eng and the other one is Husam Musa but Anwar no need Guan Eng but he needs Husam Musa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anwar have two friends, one is Guan Eng and the other one is Husam Musa but Anwar no need Guan Eng but he needs Husam Musa.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/comment-page-5/#comment-72616</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/23/dap-pkr-seats-talks-too-slow-must-be-wrapped-up-by-end-jan-as-polls-in-40-days/#comment-72616</guid>
		<description>&quot;A vote for PAS may eventually weaken the oppositions, in particular DAP, if not careful, stand a chance of being eliminate once and for all.&quot;

Care to elaborate??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A vote for PAS may eventually weaken the oppositions, in particular DAP, if not careful, stand a chance of being eliminate once and for all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Care to elaborate??</p>
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