Letters
by a JB EC parent
I have a query for you about the English College, Johor Bahru, which is now also known as Maktab Sultan Abu Bakar.
My son who is in Form Five this year, has been a Prefect in EC
since he was in Form Two. He has always been an exemplary student, as well has won praise from many teachers for his exemplary conduct and commitment to his duties and studies. He is also a member of the ExCo of the Prefectorial Board.
Recently, in the beginning of this year, there was an instruction from the school, which I believe came from the teacher advisor to the Prefectorial Board, that Prefects have to start wearing the Songkok as part of the official uniform. At first, the instruction was that it would only be required during “official functions” like school assemblies and during interschool events or major events like sports day and speech day. Hoever, this has now been revised to include daily prefectorial duties.
There are reasons to believe that the practice of getting Prefects to wear the Songkok, is a prelude to getting ALL the students of the school to eventually follow suit.
My son, after conferring with me, has decided that he will NOT wear the Songkok. He is willing to resign from the Prefectorial Board if forced to wear the Songkok.
The rationale behind his refusal, which I stongly support, is that the Songkok is an emblem of the MALAY identity. As non-Malays, he should not be forced to don attire which does not reflect his true identity.
Also, since the Constitution defines Malay as someone who is Muslim, it may give others the wrong impression that he may be Muslim. Although, at first thought, this may sound a bit far-fetched, as the complexion of a Chinese is very different from that of a Malay. But it is also about principle and of providing a precedent. What of the case of a dark-skinned Chinese, or even an Indian, who wears a songkok? Will they be mistaken for Malays?
The issue is also that of “stumbling others.” My son is a devout
Christian, and has been on two trips overseas in the past two years on mission outreaches, to help the poor, and to spread the Gospel. In Christianity, there are exhortations to Christians not to “stumble your brothers.” Apostle Paul had written in the case when food which had been offered to idols should not be consumed esp in the presence of Christian brothers who are not strong in the faith. Perhaps the wearing of the Songkok may also lead others to stumble, as the songkok is associated with Malay identity, and Malays are invariably Muslim. People who see my son wearing a songkok may think that he is a Malay, and thus a Muslim.
There will be those Malays who wish to enforce their culture, albeit in a creeping fashion, unto others, who may defend the move to enforce the songkok, claiming that the Songkok is a National identity, rather than a Malay or Muslim identity.
To that, I ask why:
- the songkok is part of the uniform of the Royal Malay Regiment, and not of say the rangers and others.
- the songkok is worn by Malays who go for Friday prayers, and not on other days.
- the songkok is worn by Malays on Hari Raya and Hari Raya Haji, but NOT on Hari Merdeka.
In fact, the songkok is identified with Malay cultural dress, just as
the cheongsam is with Chinese, and the saree with Indian. And just as the tudung is for Malays, so too the turban is for Sikhs.
IF the rationale behind the move to enforce students is “uniformity” then are Sikhs exempt from wearing them? Where then would be the uniformity?
My other contention, and which should probably be more IN THE INTEREST OF THE MALAY MUSLIM COMMUNITY, is that my son’s refusal to comply with the requirement for non-Malays to wear the songkok, WILL ACTUALLY PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY AND SANCTITY OF THE SONGKOK.
Despite all the denial about the Songkok being associated with Malay identity and hence with Islam (since all Malays are Muslims), the common perception even amongst Malay Muslims themselves, are that someone wearing a songkok IS a Muslim. IMAGINE a situation where a man wearing a songkok is having a beer, or a group of men are photographed in a pub, all wearing songkoks and each lifting a pint into the air!
What would Malays have to say about it then?
Would these be considered as an insult to Islam?
There are other situations where men in songkoks should not be
seen doing things which a Muslim should NOT be doing. For instance, would Muslims be upset if I were to wear a songkok and have my picture taken with a roast pig and the picture displayed?
What if my son wears a songkok and eats in a mamak shop during the month of Ramadan? Of if my son wears a songkok, and walks in the park at 7pm with his girlfriend, who is wearing a tudung (she also a non-Muslim!)
Would Muslim feel a sense of their culture being violated by
non-Muslims in Malay dress, doing things which good Muslims should not be doing? A non-Muslim boy walking sitting on a park bench at night with a non-Muslim girl would be nobody’s business but their own (or their parents). However, this would be a no-no for Muslims. Imagine the confusion if a non-Muslim boy with songkok were to be seen in this “khalwat” situation with a non-Muslim girl in a tudung?
Therefore, I reiterate – it is probably best to preserve the integrity and sanctity of the songkok and tudung, IF they are reserved for Malays and NOT enforced upon non-Malays. Alternatively, it should be left to the personal choice of the individual.
Do you think that my arguments have a basis?
I have no complaints if they make the songkok NON-COMPULSORY, and IF wearing it is just “encouraged” rather than. Would they have a problem if a small cross is pinned to the songkok, to designate that the wearer is not a Muslim?

#1 by Tickler on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 10:45 am
Hey what is happening to MCA or Gerakan which most of you voted for? – grace
Well, both of them were happy with the proclamation of the Nation an Islamic State, so the voters were happy too. Now they reap the harvest they sowed. A rather bountiful harvest.
#2 by cheng on soo on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 10:48 am
This is part of the “goodies” given by govt for support of BN by Johorian all these years.
#3 by Old Geezer on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 10:58 am
Now about circumcision…another practice that is misunderstood in the discussion here.
As some posters said, it is part of Islamic and Jewish religious practice.
Most males (white and black) in the US are circumcised. The excuse being it is hygienic. But in recent years, it has been deemed medically unnecessary. Health insurance does not cover that anymore because it is not medically necessary.
For us, it is obvious because billions of Chinese males have never been circumcised and yet we never see higher incidence of penile-related diseases among Chinese.
Was it a Jewish conspiracy to introduce male circumcision in the US on the pretext of cleanliness? That is an arguable topic.
But, some parents (believe it or not, Chinese included) in the US insist on circumcision so that their boys would not feel different when taking common showers in the boys’ room. I criticised my Chinese friend for being so stupid to do that because it hurts the baby.
There are now many males in the US who are upset for being circumcised claiming that the missing piece is hampering their sex life. Not joking..
Female mutilation in Africa is more drastic and different from female circumcision as practised in other Islamic countries. I would let the women here talk about that.
So, technically, if you are circumcised, it does mean you are a Muslim although it makes it easier if you want to convert.
#4 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:04 am
Godfather,
If the majority wants to see non-bumis get “potong” or else leave the country. Shall I comply this demand under your pseudo-democratic system?
In a democratic or even islamic system, majority is not equal to totalitarian, the rights of minority must be protected as well.
#5 by Tickler on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:05 am
The flip side is that many plastic surgeons made much money (esp. In California) in `prepuce growth` for the circumcised (as kids) – this being done thru skin grafts from the thigh area. I hear it`s a somewhat painful process.
As for FGM, in Djibouti and Somalia, 98% of the girls are mutilated, in Egypt up to 95% which gives an indication of the popularity.
#6 by Old Geezer on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:07 am
Serious typo mistake in my posting above..
“So, technically, if you are circumcised, it does mean you are a Muslim although it makes it easier if you want to convert.”
should be:
“So, technically, if you are circumcised, it does NOT mean you are a Muslim although it makes it easier if you want to convert.”
Sorry..
#7 by grace on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:07 am
I think we should not be too fast in making a judgement here.
I am not so sure the songkok is an Islamic attire.
Whether it is Islamic attire or not, this extra headwear is not neccessary and is not part of the school uniform. The issue at hand is that if one principla can have his ways at implementing rules and policy at his/her whims and fancy , there would be no end to controversies.
#8 by disapointed86 on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:09 am
“The songkok and batek is part of the official attire in Indonesia. No religious connotation there. Indonesian Chinese do not think twice about wearing songkok at official functions.â€
Laughing* To the people who agree with the statement above..INDONESIAN CHINESE doesnt have Chinese Name ok? So dont compare with them..We, MALAYSIA got MCA/MIC to represent other races in Malaysia…as to call it MUlti-Racial Society..How can you force someone to wear songkok where songkok is a obvioulsy shows ur identity in Malaysia?(Muslim)..But to the poster above..Malaysia today is unlike Malaysia before..the leaders now seems to be uneducated..As what i’ve read from a reply somewhere in other section of this LKS blog which read ” I rather spend my whole-life saving to send my children studying abroad”..If u’re studying in a GOV Universities and Colleges, dont hope too much..and the ranking of those universities getting worse day by day..and it seems to me that Malaysia isnt a country for the non-muslim anymore…i recall few months back where the Minister even utter such a word to chase the non-muslim out of the country..As for the SONGKOK matter..for me if its a “MUST” wear to me.. “over my dead body”.. but if its for fun or for some special purposes..i may consider …just my 2cents of view..
#9 by Tickler on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:10 am
Key word :Perception.
#10 by madmix on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:14 am
The songkok is not a religious headgear; but it is silly nowadays to wear any kind if head gear in a a hot and humid climate unless you are a policeman, guard or in the armed forces or other uniformed group. Imagine Texan prefects wearing cowboy hats, Mexican prefects wearing sombreros, Brits with bowler hats in school!
#11 by BobSam on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:16 am
Undergrad2, u miss the point. If a Non-Moslem, whose education in primary & secondary school was in Malay, and who is well versed in Malay, cannot pray to Allah being his God during his religious observance becoz his Allah is different from the Moslem Allah, hence the same should apply. We cannot have this creeping assimilation, and then when that kid dies, the religious authorities will come and say, he has been dressing like a moslem, eating halal food, talking in the Malay language and observing Malay cultural standards, hence he is a Moslem. Q.E.D.
#12 by mendela on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:17 am
To me, the main purpose of forcing us to wear things we don’t like is to discourage us not to participate.
The same applies to police force and army.
#13 by cheng on soo on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:23 am
May be next time: All msian males, must wear songkok n batek shirt when he goes to all govt dept, (pay tax or fines, renew licences, submit any forms, apply passport, cast a vote, apply IC etc), otherwise he will not be entertained. Ladies must wear baju kurung or kebaya, Why? Reasons? whatever anybody can think of!
#14 by mendela on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:23 am
By the way, a friend of mine in Klang with 4 eligible voting adult family members have 4 different constituencies to vote at though they all stay in a same house!
Is this another way for UMO to split the opposition ballots?
#15 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:23 am
oknyua Says:
Today at 09: 35.55 (1 hour ago)
JB EC Parent.
This is the requirement in all Matriculation colleges too. All Sabah and Sarawak students who are non-Muslims are subjected to the same dress code.
This, I believe, even occured in some of the Universities (UTM, UiTM ?). There was a similar protest about the same thing sometimes back.
=============================================
Two minus signs are not equal to a plus sign.
UTM is a pioneer to use songkok in convo. Only 1/3 of chinese in my course boycotted convocation.
For me, holding principle is more important than a few photo snaps in a convocation.
Johor sultan also resigned from the chancellor post after spotted his graduates wearing slippers in convocation and also due to other issues.
#16 by Old Geezer on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:26 am
My advice to the parents of this boy would be to discuss with the other parents, PTA, and principal, and to hear what the exact reason is. If it is part of a dress uniform, i.e. full ceremonial uniform, then it is OK. As I said, it is not Islamic unless people want to make it an Islamic issue. That goes for the person who introduced that policy and also to the non-Malay parents.
I know some posters here are hopping mad about this issue and want to march on the street.
As one poster mentioned here, you can reject the “Dato”, “Tan Sri” or whatever if you don’t want to wear the songkok. Likewise, the boy can quit if he insists on not wearing the songkok. But in my mind, that would be a mistake without first studying and discussing the issue. That is my level-headed advice.
#17 by scorpian6666 on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:28 am
Wouldnt it be great! if the UMNO give all the Malaysian inrespective of race or religion the same privilege as the Malay and also the VVVVIP if we all wear Songkok.. there would be no more Hindraf, no Bersih rally and no More DAP, PAS and …..and the crime rate goes down to zero
Love to see Our PM and ministers wearing songkok, sarong and not forgetting the kris in the parliament.
#18 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:31 am
mendela Says:
Today at 11: 17.54 (5 minutes ago)
To me, the main purpose of forcing us to wear things we don’t like is to discourage us not to participate.
The same applies to police force and army.
========================================
Non-bumi cannot join malay regiment. What is the fuss for non-malay joining police and army?
I had never wore songkok when I was with the military. Don’t condemn something you don’t know.
#19 by Tickler on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:40 am
Non muslim females in the police have to wear tudung.
#20 by Old Geezer on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:41 am
To want to remain a prefect and insisting on not wearing the songkok, that would become a discipline issue. That would be bad for the boy.
I don’t think the parents should advise the son to do that.
Quitting would be enough to safeguard your dignity if they think that is more important in this case.
As adults, we should be more responsible when giving advice.
That is my two-cents and I am out of here..
#21 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:44 am
madmix Says:
Today at 11: 14.46 (17 minutes ago)
The songkok is not a religious headgear;
=================================================
In Malaysia context, Malay is Muslim and Muslim is Malay, both are indistinguishable.
Songkok is malay traditional attire and it’s not wrong to say songkok is a religious headgear.
#22 by Tickler on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:47 am
The songkok is not a religious headgear – madmix
Maybe not. But most seem to think so as they fell they must wear it when going to the mosque for prayers.
#23 by Tickler on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:49 am
Aiya. Repost :But most seem to think so as they feel they must wear it when going to the mosque for prayers.
#24 by scorpian6666 on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:51 am
Maybe we could have a red songkok for the Chinese and white one for the Indian. That way everybody happy..
#25 by scorpian6666 on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:52 am
I forgot Green ones for the ministers
#26 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:56 am
Old Geezer Says:
Today at 11: 41.10 (3 minutes ago)
To want to remain a prefect and insisting on not wearing the songkok, that would become a discipline issue. That would be bad for the boy.
I don’t think the parents should advise the son to do that.
Quitting would be enough to safeguard your dignity if they think that is more important in this case.
As adults, we should be more responsible when giving advice.
That is my two-cents and I am out of here..
======
First step is this parent writes a letter to headmaster to demand no songkok for his son. If the headmaster refuses to accept his reasonable demand, he then escalate the issues to state education department and up to minister level if needed.
Second step is to ask his son resigns from perfect after (if) minister rejects his demand.
Third step is to gather supports from opposition parties and chinese communities to blow up the issue.
#27 by scorpian6666 on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 11:57 am
As for the school, i am sure you will all like blue with white..
#28 by sani on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 12:14 pm
YB
I remember, when i was performing overseas, i wore a songkok. I am proud of it, as to me it is a “Malaysian Hat”.
Now, “Uniform” means plainly + simply……..everyone wear the same stuffs. Plain + simple.
Uniform is extremely important when the Rakyst are not uniform in ethnicity. That is the whole purpose in the 1st place.
1st choice :
No Cheong Sam, no Sarees, no Baju Kurung, No Sarongs, no exotic clothings from Sabah + Sarawak etcs. No Turban, no Chinese hats with pig tails, no warriors heads gears from Sabah + Sarawak, no Songkok, no Hats, no Berets, no Wigs, no Tudung etcs. No expensive accesories, no religious accesories, no gang Tatoo……just plain “UNIFORM”
2nd Choice :
Wear anything……just as long as your private parts are conseal. That’s call a”Dress Code”.
Just like so many other issues, i can’t see our peanuts goverment making a clear stand on this. Everyone in the BN is just so uniformly uninterested in the Rakyats’ welfare.
#29 by Cinapek on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 12:17 pm
At the root of this is the present climate of perceived creeping Islamization of Malaysian society by non Muslims.
Even whilst some may defend the songkok as a non religious symbol, the songkok or “peci” is indeed an Indonesian Islamic headgear popularised by the late Seokarno (see Wikipedia). In Malaysia’s context it is perceived as a Malay headgear and hence by extension, also a Muslim headgear. Hence the objections.
By the same argument that Muslims would be “confused” by allowing the Christains to use the word “Allah” for God, likewise non Muslims should not be required to wear songkoks, lest Muslims be confused why a headgear worn only by Muslims are now worn by non Muslims.
What troubles me is why all these provocative acts now? MSAB is one of the oldest school in the country and has existed for a long time with its proud traditions and history. Some of its most illustrious alumni includes Tun Ismail and Tun Hussein Onn and if they do not see any need for the school to change its legacy, why little petty officials are doing it now? What are their motives and intentions?
Sometimes these petty officials need some sense to be knocked into their heads. Years ago, my son, who was also a student in MSAB, was inexplicably transferred from the top class to one of the lesser classes. When I went to ask the reason from the Pengetua, initially he told me it was because they want to group all students active in extra curricular activities into one class so that it is easier to arrange lesson breaks. When I pointed out to him my son’s main activity was chess and had nothing in common with a single one of his new classmates, he hemmed and hawed until he finally admitted the reason was to distribute the better students amongst the various classes to help the weaker students. It sounded more like trying to bring the standards down to me and I told him so. Finally, in short, he moved my son back into the top class after I threatened to speak to the press about his silly directive.
#30 by Jeffrey on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 12:31 pm
There is no dispute on this point is there that “songkok” (traditional Malay cap) is a headdress for the last 50 years worn by or with the traditional outfit for Malay men?
so why must there be a school ruling that a prefect must wear in order to be a prefect?
World over to be a prefect is an acknowledgment from the school that the student has good qualities of being reasonably good in academic and sports pursuits, responsible, reliable, and has leadership thereby making him not just a “guard†over other students to maintain school’s rules and discipline and also to be a role model for other students.
Why is then the student forced the dilemma of either accepting the Malay cultural signifier/emblem of a songkok or by default losing the school acknowledgement of a position he otherwise deserves? It is his entitlement!
The fact that he is put in a dilemma shows that it is not voluntary. So how can it be justified? Why should any deserving student be deprived of the entitlement of acknowledgment unless he wears the songkok?
Do all schools have this ruling for prefects? Is this a ruling by our Ministry of Education ? No.
It is the ruling of some overzealous head principal so why should it be entertained and apologized for as if it was that innocuous? Have you heard of such ruling 50 years ago until recently?
If I were the father I would write to the Ministry of Education to ask of it whether such a ruling is tenable with copies extended to Malaysiakini & YB Lim for bringing up such an issue to the public.
Lets not bring in examples of those who have to wear the songkok (and other ceremonial regalia associated with malay traditions) to receive Datoship because that is a different ball game – it concerns ceremonies based on Malay feudal culture and the honours given are part of the system, so if you want it badly, you have to conform.
But getting acknowledgment of one’s attributes to be a prefect is not part of the feudal patronage system of giving state’s awards, it concerns all of us common people, and so there is no comparison.
Even for the judges, it is contentious to substitute horse hair wig for songkok. Don’t want to wear the wig don’t wear. One need not have wear the songkok as if you are dispensing not civil justice but Islamic justice!
But what to do when some people want to be judges so they conform since the ruling must be made by the number 1 in judiciary but that does not make it right as you will recall, talking about values, the no 1 was also embroiled in controversy of judicial fixing which is now a subject of the Royal Commission! The same one also talked about civil law being substituted by Malaysian comon law (read with Sharia elements), so that is very consistent from where he was coming.
On the issue of consistency/inconsistency, why then “allah†cannot be used by non muslim in bahasa to avoid confusion but it is ok if everyone else wears songkok? What’s the principles behind the differentiation, one may ask?
#31 by smeagroo on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 12:42 pm
our edu system is busy doing all these things except churning out good students.
But hey, maybe kerisman thot hang tuah wore a songkok now all must follow suit.
#32 by Jeffrey on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 12:43 pm
“Indonesian Chinese do not think twice about wearing songkok at official functions†but Indonesia is not Malaysia : the former has proceeded with assimilation by majority, here officially is not. Integration has been touted. Do you think YB will conform to a ruling that he has to wear a songkok in Parliament to be an MP? :)
#33 by bystander on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 1:06 pm
right on jeffrey. that is logical reasoning and argument. why bully the non muslims student? why not make it compulsory for MP to wear songkok to parliament like jeffrey says?
#34 by bystander on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 1:32 pm
latest from my daughters school BU4 in bandar utama. the new malay principal just announced that from 2008 onwards cheer leading is banned from the school as opposed to previous years under a non malay principal (its a fact all non malay principals are being replaced by malays) and bu4 school will not be participate in any cheer leading competition anymore. presumably, its considered haram. dragon dance is banned in the school as this will attract malay ghosts. lol, a principal who is so backward and extreme. what sort of islamisation are schools undergoing. No wonder our education standards are going down the chute. why cant we non muslims have own vernacular or english medium schools? where is our choice for our children’s education? cant we have a say in wanting the best education for our children? do we have to have second rate education just like the malays?
#35 by cto on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 1:34 pm
But aren’t you guys afraid that one of these days they may require that you be circumcised??
——————————-
Hey, stop publishing these brilliant ideas. There are cybertroopers around. :)
#36 by brt on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 2:31 pm
Why are you all still moaning about this?
Pack your bags and get out of this psychotic country. If they want to go down the path of Islamic extremism and burn like their cousins in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, let them do it.
It’s about time the monied non-Malays yanked it all out and watch the collapse from across the shores. Trust me, a few shaky years and the prospect of oblivion staring these “tuans” in their face and they will go back to the path of moderation and reconciliation to beg for capital.
#37 by jus legitimum on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 2:52 pm
This example of insensitivity only shows the arrogance of some racial bigots in our country.Vote for Dap and other opposition parties to at least slash their 2/3 majority so as to make them humble and respect the minority.
#38 by cto on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 2:55 pm
IF the rationale behind the move to enforce students is “uniformity†then are Sikhs exempt from wearing them? Where then would be the uniformity?
——————————–
These are good questions. Why not make everyone wear the turban if uniformity is the objective? Has the songkok been declared the national head dress?
#39 by Godfather on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 2:58 pm
Some of you seem to equate the wearing of songkok as an affront to all non-Muslims and that it is equivalent to “them” asking the non-Muslims to “potong”. I see the issue as that of personal choice.
If “they” say that you must wear the songkok at the swearing in of a prefect, or a convocation, or the swearing in of a datuk or the national day parade, then you have a choice of not proceeding. For every one of us who see this as an affront, there are others within the minority who see this as merely an inconvenience, and hence you see non-Muslims wearing songkoks at swearing in ceremonies.
Do you see Semi Value and Ong Ka Ting and Lim Keng Yaik wearing songkoks at Parliament openings ? Of course they do it. If they can do it, where are you complaining about it ? Is this any different from the discrimination that we face every day in quotas for universities, for scholarships, for discounts on property ? Yes, we have a choice, even if “they” ask all the minorities to potong. You have a choice to leave the country because there are others who will be willing to do it to stay in the country. That is stark reality.
#40 by k1980 on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:08 pm
Will female prefects will be required to wear the burka?
#41 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:28 pm
[deleted. The last thing we want is for this blog to be accused of inciting violence. - kit]
#42 by kanthanboy on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:37 pm
Dear EC parent,
You should write to headmaster to let him know that you son’s favorite food is roast piglet and you are worried that some curious tourists might take a picture of him eating roast piglet at the restaurant with the songkok uniform on. You should request a written reply from him to guarantee that your son would not be responsible if someone post in the internet a picture of him eating roast piglet and wearing the songkok uniform. I think the possibility of such a scenario will scare the shit out of him.
#43 by dranony on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:40 pm
Godfather Said: “You have a choice to leave the country because there are others who will be willing to do it to stay in the country. That is stark reality.”
Would Godfather also use the same argument to defend perpetuation of Apartheid, ie “If you (blacks) don’t like it, you can leave the country?”
#44 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:40 pm
Do you see Semi Value and Ong Ka Ting and Lim Keng Yaik wearing songkoks at Parliament openings ? Of course they do it. If they can do it, where are you complaining about it ?
============
Malaysia constitution does not spell out I as a rakyat must follow OKT. Do you know Samy got booed in Penang by Indians?
Songkok issue is not new, it was raised since early 80s.
#45 by dranony on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:50 pm
Samy Vellu and Ong Ka Ting and Lim Keng Yaik has a right to wear the songkok if they CHOOSE to. Nobody should deny them that right, just as nobody should FORCE them to, if they have conscientious objections.
But I would also defend Nik Aziz’s right to wear the kopiah, instead of the songkok, if he so chooses.
The important principle here is of choice.
Just as I detest schools enforcing female students to wear the tudung, I would also protest schools which deny female students the choice to wear the tudung.
But it would appear that some people in positions of a little power to make decisions, cannot understand the principle of choice.
#46 by malaysiatoday.com on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 3:51 pm
bystander Says:
school will not be participate in any cheer leading competition anymore. presumably, its considered haram. dragon dance is banned in the school as this will attract malay ghosts.
===================
Dragon dance is listed as national heritage. The ban is not a LOL stuff, my dear friend.
Today is dragon dance will attract malay ghosts, tomorrow is your chinese face will attract Indon ghost, both must be banned.
#47 by ahoo on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 4:08 pm
It would really be interesting IF someone can ask PKR’s Dato
Anwar Ibrahim what he was thinking then (80s’-90s’) when
Islamisation was so widely implemented with so many religious
schools and asrama built ! He MAY think differently now.
Our school going children have to endure many policies that
is being subtly introduce. Non malay students with longhair
were told to wear “tudung” by their PE teacher (malay) in
order to keep it tidy during exercise. Just like their malay
peers who are wearing it. Of course they discussed it among themselves and tell the teacher concern, NO as they prefer
to use hair clips and others to tie it instead. This is just one
of the many issues out there.
Then the issue of mixing up the class with high achievers with
low and medium achievers were implemented. With the school
reopening, my girl (form 2) was moved from top 2 class to the
class 5 out of 6 classes in total. Reason is that by placing her
there to sit with the under achievers, teacher hopes to get
her to guide her under achieving peers to do well !
Now, as parent when confronted with such a dilemma, what
can we advise our children ? Can we tell them that’s the job
of their teacher’s ? Anyway, in my case, my girl sporttingly
said that she will do her best and hope that her class
teacher will not blame her if those classmates under her do
not live up to expectation at year end exam.
To me the songkok issue is just another subtle ways of
over zealous officers pushing “their agenda” unto us and
plainly ignoring others of their own rights.
They will do whatever they can to “desensitised” the mind
set of non muslims until you accept it as norm. What we all
should do is to invest enough monies into opposition parties
to give bn a run during the coming GE rather than just pack
and go as …… brt said.
Beside voting wisely, we need to support the candidates in
whatever ways we can. Those with monies, send it to YB
and those no so well to do can offer their time instead. Be
positive to see some changes and continue to share about
the excessess, leakeages and the never ending policies !!!
roots to all these
that we also have rights
#48 by Jeffrey on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 5:54 pm
“…//…With the school reopening, my girl (form 2) was moved from top 2 class to the class 5 out of 6 classes in total. Reason is that by placing her there to sit with the under achievers, teacher hopes to get her to guide her under achieving peers to do well ! ” – ahoo
Sorry I am not aware of this happening. I am of the opinion that you should not accept such an arrangement from the school. If possible transfer your girl to another school where there is no such policy.
The reason I say so is that it is most unfair to expect an achiever like your child to bring up and motivate the underachievers. It is not your girl’s job; it is teachers’ job and the Ministry of Education’s reponsibility.
The rationale is that by placing a high achiever like your girl amongst the under achievers it will by peer group influence enable your girl to bring the rest up. But this can work and cut the opposite way : by peer group pressure and influence your girl achievement and motivation for it may be brought down by those under achievers.
That is why you notice in any sports game those who train with better players improve their game whilst better ones who sparr with lesser ones slowly lose their competitive edge and skills.
I think it is most unfair on your girl. I think you should not accept this. Why should she sacrifice for these under acvhievers brought down by government policies? I won’t. I will never agree to this.
chthere is no reason to o
[As a matter of interest, can ahoo tell us which year he is referring to with regard to this incident. - kit]
#49 by teluyalam on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 7:56 pm
personally, jus dun accept the crap. i refused to do stpm because i had to learn “sejarah islam” in school. as far as i am concerned, i felt it had no bearing on me n had no wish to waste my time. we were poor, stpm would seemingly be the only choice. i enrolled in apvt college, ate 1 meal a day n taught in the evenings to pay my fees.
All non-muslims (n others who r “muslim” due to compulsion), don’t accept it. walk out, refuse, do not participate and don’t comply. if our useless ministers have no qualms to sell their soul y shud we?
vernacular schools or pvt schools. its time to act and react.
#50 by Count Dracula on Friday, 11 January 2008 - 8:02 pm
“So, technically, if you are circumcised, it does mean you are a Muslim although it makes it easier if you want to convert.” Old Geezer
One reason why Muslims cannot convert out is because they cannot re-attach their foreskins – they say.