Do Malaysian Muslims understand what ‘Allah’ means?
The Other Malaysia
by Farish A. Noor
25 December 2007
At the time of writing this, I am in Cairo in the company of my Egyptian friends who are Muslims, Catholics and Copts. Eid has passed and I attended several dinners and celebrations where Muslims and Copts celebrated together, visiting each others’ homes and ate til we could not eat any further. What is worse, Christmas is upon us and so once again Muslims, Catholics and Copts will be heading for the communal table for the communal feast and there will be much licking of chops, munching of bread, gobbling of sweet deserts and drinking for everyone. It is all simply too pleasant to belive, yet it is real and this is what life is like for many in Cairo, the ‘Mother of civilisation’ and home to more than twenty million Egyptians from all walks of life.
What is most striking to the outside observer like me - though rather banal for the Egyptians themselves - is the fact that in all these celebrations ranging from Eid for the Muslims to Christmas for the Catholics and Copts the word ‘Allah’ is used to denote that supreme and singular divinity, God. Catholics and Copts alike exclaim ‘Masha-allah’, ‘Wallahi’, ‘ya-Rabbi’, ‘Wallah-u allam’, and of course ‘Allahuakbar’ day in, day out, everywhere they go. The coptic taxi driver blares out ‘By Allah, cant you see where you are parking??” as he dodges the obstable ahead. The Catholic shopkeeper bemoans “Ya Allah, ya Allah! You can only offer me two pounds for the scarf? Wallahi, my mother would die if she heard that! Ya-Rabbi, ya-Rabbi!”
Yet in Malaysia at the moment yet another non-issue has been brewed to a scandal for no reason: The Malaysian Catholic Herald, a publication by and for Catholics in the country, has been told that it can no longer publish its Malaysian language edition if it continues to use the word “Allah” to mean God. Worse still, the country’s Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum recently stated that “Only Muslims can use the word Allah” ostensibly on the grounds that “Allah” is a Muslim word. The mind boggles at the confounding logic of such a non-argument, which speaks volumes about the individual’s own ignorance of Muslim culture, history and the fundamental tenets of Islam itself.
For a start, the word ‘Allah’ predates the revelation to the Prophet Muhammad and goes way back to the pre-Islamic era. Christians had been using the word long before there were any Muslims, in fact. Furthermore the word is Arabic, and is thus common to all the peoples, cultures and societies where Arabic - in all its dialects - is spoken, and is understood by millions of Arabic speakers to mean God, and little else. One could also add that as “Allah” is an Arabic word it therefore has more to do with the development and evolution of Arabic language and culture, and less to do with Islam. It is hard to understand how any religion can have a language to call its own, for languages emerge from a societal context and not a belief system. If one were to abide by the skewered logic of the Minister concerned, then presumably the language of Christianity (if it had one) would be Aramaic, or perhaps Latin.
The Minister’s remark not only demonstrated his shallow understanding of Muslim culture and the clear distinction between Arab culture and Muslim theology, but it also demonstrated his own lack of understanding of the history of the Malays, who, like many non-Arabs, only converted to Islam much later from the 13th century onwards. Among the earliest pieces of evidence to indicate Islam’s arrival to the Malay archipelago are the stone inscriptions found in Malay states like Pahang where the idea of God is described in the sanskrit words ‘Dewata Mulia Raya’. As no Malay spoke or even understood Arabic then, it was natural for the earliest Malay-Muslims to continue using the Sanskrit-inspired language they spoke then. Surely this does not make them lesser Muslims as a result?
The ruckus that has resulted thanks to the threat not to allow the publication of the Malaysian language edition of the Christian Herald therefore forces observers to ask the simple question: Why has this issue erupted all of a sudden, when the word Allah was used for so long with narry a protest in sight? At a time when the Malaysian government is already getting flak as a result of the protests by Malaysian Hindus who insist that they remain at the bottom of the economic ladder despite fifty years of independence, now it would appear as if the Malaysian government cannot get enough bad publicity.
The administration of Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi came to power on the promise that it would promote its own brand of moderate Islam that was pluralist and respectful of other cultures and religions. But time and again the Malaysian public - first Hindus and now Christians - have felt necessary to protest over what they regard as unfair, biased treatment and the furthering of an exclusive brand of Islam that is communitarian and divisive. The latest fiasco over the non-issue that is the name of God would suggest that Prime Minister’s Badawi’s grand vision of a moderate Islam has hit the rocks, and is now floundering. Just how the ministers and elite of this government is to regain their course is open to question, but what is clear is that some Ministers should get their basic knowledge of their own religion in order first.
December 28th, 2007 at 05: 50.15
A learned man talks sense. It is only the half past six that talk cock. That is the plight of the country where we are filled to the brim with half past six leaders and time and again they justify their existence by the count of votes and whatever half past six things they do or say are incidental and of no consequences to society or the country.
December 28th, 2007 at 05: 50.56
‘”Just how the ministers and elite of this government is to regain their course is open to question…”
This is what happens when you have a weak man leading the pack as prime minister. Mahathir must bear full responsibility for putting him where he is today.
December 28th, 2007 at 06: 06.43
Granted, TDM did put our current PM to be his successor. But, laying all the blame on one man is just a bit far fetched. As powerful as he was, he certainly didn’t give the ruling coalition, the 90% majority in parliament. It’s essentially this virtually uncontested power that makes things the way that they are now. So, ultimately, the ones to blame (if anyone is to be blamed at all) are us all, the electorate. But I do think that our current PM isn’t fully behind the reigns. That’s why the comedians are even allowed to work such gems.
December 28th, 2007 at 07: 07.35
I have some Arab friends and they thought muslims are those who dress in the Arabic style. The way the Malay dress with the Sarong are not considered high class muslims. I am surprised to hear that. But of course we have our judgements.
December 28th, 2007 at 07: 10.14
Perhaps it is the same with the language that one speaks. Muslims in the middle east speak Arabic.
December 28th, 2007 at 07: 11.46
Farish, there’s something you should know, UMNO muslim has long converted to Islam Hadhari since Abdullah became Prime Minister. Hence certain Arabic words also became exclusive to this new version of Islam religion. It has been four years since the rise of Abdullah and his Islam Hadhari and what we saw was the worst of religious polarization in country, this tell you what Abullah and Islam Hadhari are all about, extremism.
December 28th, 2007 at 07: 30.30
Farish Noor speaks the truth without any ill motive like the UMNOputras who has an agenda in everything they do; the truth is always straight forward and easy to understand.
It’s true Malaysian ministers are half past six. Compare their qualifications with their counterparts in professionally run , high economic growth, first world rating per capita income without natural resources such as Singapore, you’d get a shock! (would someone post the difference in this blog if you happen to have it? I have seen it somewhere).
REGRETTABLY, THE POLITIC IN MALAYSIA IS SUCH THE ‘UMNOPUTRAS’ HAD SHREWDLY SEIZED THE OPPORTUNITY IN 1969 UNDER THE PRETEXT OF ‘EMERGENCY’ HAD ‘DIVIDED’ THE MALAYSIANS INTO BUMIPUTRAS AND NON-BUMIPUTRAS. GIVEN THE EARLIER WHICH CONSTITUTES 50% OF THE TOTAL POPULATION (AND THE GAP IS GETTING BIGGER EACH DAY BECAUSE THEY ARE FULLY AWARE ‘THEY JUST GIVE BIRTH, THE BN WILL PROVIDE EVERYTHING), THE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES (AND THESE LATER BECAME CRUTCHES, AND NOW WHEELCHAIR, AND SLOWLY ITS GOING TO BE ‘MOTORISED’), THEY COULD EASILY ‘GO IT ALONE TO RULE THE COUNTRY WITHOUT THE NON-BUMI’S SUPPORT’. THEIR KETUANAN IS FURTHER GUARANTEED WITH THE UNFAIR CHANGES AND ADDITION IN THE PARLIAMENTARY AND STATE CONSTITUENCIES!
WHAT ARE THE RIGHT MINDED MALAYSIANS TO DO?
WHILE SPEAKING OUT FOR THE UNFAIR PRACTICES FROM TIME TO TIME, TAKE EVERY ELECTION CHANCE TO EXPRESS YOUR DISAPPOINTMENT AND FRUSTRATION!
ONE STEP AT A TIME; JUST VOTE ANY OPPOSITION IN THE COMING ELECTION IS THE RIGHT STEP TOWARDS THE CHANGE, HOWEVER SMALL IT MAY BE!
‘GOD WOULD GIVE A WAY WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY’
December 28th, 2007 at 07: 32.11
Dear Farish,
Hi there. Thanks for the wonderful and yet academic and historical background on the usage of the word Allah. Your open-mindedness set you apart from many politicians in Malaysia today, who like the country’s Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum recently stated that “Only Muslims can use the word Allah†posses serious questions on whether they understand Islam from a religious point of view or from a fanatical Islamic point of view. Thanks for coming forward to explain the fundamental issues of using the word Allah.
“Abdullah Badawi was born to a prominent religious family. His father, Ahmad Badawi, was a prominent religious figure…He received a Bachelor of Arts in Islamic Studies from the University of Malaya in 1964 ” ( Wikipedia ). I’m not sure of Johari’s background, but Abdullah, with his religious credentials, doesn’t have leadership qualities to educate Johari Baharum on issues as fundamental as we are facing now.
I’m hoping that more Malays and Muslims will follow suit your qualities in taking time to explain and educate the ‘ religious fanatics’ in Malaysia who seem to be either sleeping or pretending to sleep.
May Allah (God) bless Malaysia
December 28th, 2007 at 07: 58.32
Kit calls it “somnambulant governance” or management by “sleepwalkingâ€.
At one time it was the “muddling through management”.
December 28th, 2007 at 08: 09.09
I went back to through the speeches of Badawi that while he implied moderatation with Islam Hadhari, it is more correct that he said ‘civilizational’ Islam. One civility is another barbarism. The concept of Islam Hadhari is appears is not moderation but rather material and of this world i.e., a focus on development.
No the PM has an out if he chooses to be hypocritical and feudal. Not that the excuse is acceptable but technically, he did not break his promise, he just misled.
That could be worst.
December 28th, 2007 at 08: 25.59
Soon we will see ALLAH©, ALLAH®and ALLAH™ on signboards of religious organizations in Malaysia put up by Islamic authorities.
December 28th, 2007 at 08: 56.48
Why the fuss. If they want Allah to be exclusively for Malays, so be it. No point arguing with the UMNO pirates because you have to lower down your insanity and status to even try to reason with them. It’s not worth the hassle.
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 17.01
It helps the rest of us understand the Malay mind or psyche if nothing else.
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 29.53
I am sure God is not overly concern over the name given to Him, be it God, Allah, Tuhan, etc.
I am confident that God or Allah is more concern of the justice in the system and the fair treatment being accord to all citizens of the world, Malaysian no exception.
So current ruling govn or any future govn, be fair in your treatment of the oppressed or the unfortunates less judgment be falled upon you…Let justice and truth prevail.
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 30.40
Hello Badawi,
Your have big ears, right?? Ok, please listen up then ……
How about putting some intelligent ministers in that cabinet of yours???
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 33.48
Maybe they can start banning the use of BM since it is exclusive to them also.
What a bunch of arse!
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 34.15
Dear Farish,
May be you shall enlighten those stupid minister that Arabic word appear on UMNO logo, Malaysia currency has anything to do with Islam while there is an effort to uphold Bahasa Malaysia as national language.
It is also sad to see our next generation have to face the problem to communicate. BM word like ‘ berhubung ‘ bacame ‘ bercomunicasi ‘ ?
Just wonder what is the purpose of the Arabic word on Malaysia note.
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 35.18
ALA-mak!
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 37.08
Blasphemy! How dare you
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 38.33
“The mind boggles at the confounding logic of such a non-argument, which speaks volumes about the individual’s own ignorance of Muslim culture, history and the fundamental tenets of Islam itself.”
- this is the quality of ministers BN/UMNO has and makes Malaysia a laughing stock in the eyes of the world. They just want to flex their muscles because they have been in power for far to bleddy long!
Time to go for change, kick these morons out of office. Change in government is what we need!
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 42.13
Dear helpless,
The words Allah and Mohammed are also on the crown badges of police personnel which are not exclusively worn by Muslims!
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 45.34
I’m too flabbergasted to provide long rational comments to things said or done by Malaysian leaders.
I personally think monkeys can behave in a more rational manner than them.
December 28th, 2007 at 09: 49.58
The words Allah and Mohammed are also on the crown badges of police personnel which are not exclusively worn by Muslims! - ktteokt
And non muslim women personnel have to wear tudung.
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 09.56
Prime Minister’s Badawi’s grand vision of a moderate Islam has hit the rocks, and is now floundering….”
PM zzzzzzzz has been floundering from the day he assumed office. He is one of the dumbest PM this country has ever seen. He graduated in Islamic Studies which means he did not have the brains to try the difficult disciplines like medicine or engineering or IT or physics etc. Neither did he graduate with a First Class Honours.This doesn’t speak much about his grey matter.
Ok, his deputy made an infantile and moronic ruling to ban the use of Herald. Being the Minister of Internal Security why can’t he overrule his deputy on that very day!
I won’t blame his deputy. I blame the Minister who doubles up as Imam of Islam Hadhari.
Or is his deputy trying to discredit his boss and force him into early retirement?
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 10.58
Correction: “… he is the dumbest PM…”
(not one of the dumbest)
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 12.27
Catholic weekly seeks court order to use ‘Allah’
PETALING JAYA: The publisher of Herald - The Catholic Weekly has filed a writ of summons and statement of claim in the Kuala Lumpur High Court to seek appropriate declarations of the use of “Allahâ€.
The weekly’s editor Reverend Father Lawrence Andrew said the writ and statement were filed on Dec 5.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/28/courts/19871126&sec=courts
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 16.44
Can we like copyright the word GOD so that the somnambulant guy cant use it also?
So that ppl like Samy Vellu cant use the phrase “act of God” anymore.
He will hv to use another word to replace God accordingly.
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 32.14
Supposing Johari says that this has nothing to do with his not understanding Muslim culture, history and the fundamental tenets of Islam itself or not knowing that Allah is used by Arabic Christians and stated in (say) Indonesian bibles. Supposing he says further that it has nothing to do with promoting exclusive brand of Islam that is communitarian and divisive - but that it was just a practical approach to avoid confusion between two different religious groups having a different understanding of their Gods and that when it comes to important matters of faith, there should be no ambiguity and confusion.
Won’t there be confusion if (say) in a church congregation conducted in Bahasa throughout, the statement “we go to the church on Sunday for prayers to God whilst muslims go to the mosques to pray to their God on Friday†could turn outas “kita orang Kristian pergi ke gereja pada hari Ahad untuk bersembangyang kepada Allah manakala orang Islam pergi ke majid pada hari Jumat untuk bersembayang kepada Allahâ€?
Article 11(4) of the Constitution/Merdeka Social Contract prohibits propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam - the object being to prevent Muslims from being influenced (read as from being even exposed to any form of proselytization based on other faiths) resulting in their possible converting out of their own faith, Islam. Would not this object be frustrated if a young and not so experienced Muslim chancing to hear discussions, sermons or teachings using the same expression Allah in Bahasa get influenced by such discussions, sermons or teachings that may result in his doubts of his own faith , contravening the spirit, if not letter, of article 11(4) of the Constitution in respect to which all Malaysians of whatever creed and religion pledge to uphold? How do you reply or respond to his point based on “practical aproach” argument to avoid confusion in the narrow context of our society ?
.
thenn
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 32.43
As I can see it, the fuss surrounding the controversial use of the word ALLAH is actually the work of the half past six ministers to garner votes from the malays. They want to paint themseves to be holier than the rest. They try to outdo each other to make themselves look good in the eyes of the malays voters. All these half past six ministers in the UMNO putras interprete things according to their own version of seeing things. They called themselves moderate when the world sees them as fanatic. We cant reason with them rationally bcos they have their own ways of reasoning and seeing things. Just like the act of HISHAMUDDIN when he issued an ultimatum to koh tsu koon. The world sees the act as a threat but he denied it. Probably FARISH who we see as a moderate person might be considered a terrorist and a threat by the UMNOputras. We need ppl like FARISH to give the world a true version of ISLAM that dont oppressed , that dont robbed the rights of others and are not corrupt. I believe the the true version of ISLAM gives equal rights to everybody irrespective of race and religion . What is being practised by the UMNOputras is UNISLAMIC.
December 28th, 2007 at 10: 50.42
Whether they claimed it right or over-claimed, UMNO always right.
Since becoming OIC Chairman, Malaysia have been the center of financial transaction for many of their members and the latest world market on crude oil helps a lot in gaining extra cash flows.
As human, we all must know that this world only build on monetary values. In Malaysia, having to involved in this mega ‘cash flow’ program have given a very much needed advantage for UMNO to behave what they like. That’s why that they can talk louder in BN too.
Those land owners too owed UMNO a big favor in making their financial statement very healthy through their policies of wealth sharing.
Monetary status have improves and many in the system including friends and relatives reap the fruits that grow abundance.
Now, they just need to create some scenes that will definitely given them advantage in GE and these remarks are usually applied. All along, they have succeeded and the same in this coming GE.
The reappointment of EC chairman says all.
This guy cannot just walk away and this round is his pay back favor to UMNO.
Don’t get mad, Malaysian as this country scandal are very much larger than all of us combined. Live you days to the fullest as you don’t control the flow of this country anymore.
Your voices may be loud enough to be heard and not enough to change the route.
Everyone above our system are involved and none can ever repent as they went too deep and can only go deeper.
Pround that you still can wake up each day to enjoy some peaceful moments and value the time given.
We are just passenger here in Malaysia.
December 28th, 2007 at 11: 09.19
Saw this interesting comment on another thread By Earnest, I think):
The Indonesian government presumably has presumably no problem with Christian publications in the Indonesian language, which use the term “Allah†today, not eons ago.
Several years ago, a group of churches changed the word “Allah†to “Yahweh†throughout the whole Lembaga Alkitab Indonesia Bible, and had it printed. Recently the Lembaga Alkitab Indonesia took these churches to court (probably for copyright infringement), and won their case, and the Indonesian police then entered these churches and confiscated all those Bibles.
December 28th, 2007 at 11: 11.46
This proves that malaysia is more islamic than the arab states: The kaaba should relocate from jeddah to putrajaya
December 28th, 2007 at 11: 23.02
It is good for Farish A. Noor who has traveled far and wide in the world, and is knowledgeable to share his experiences on the use of the word “Allah” with those still reveling blissfully like frogs under the coconut shells.
Back here in Our Lady of Lourdes church which I attend, Sunday Mass is conducted in English from 7.30 to 8.30am; whereas it is conducted in Bahasa Malaysia for the Sabahans and Sarawakians from 12 to 1 pm, where the name of our God, “Allah” is used.
The Chinese Mass is conducted solely in Chinese in another church in the vicinity. The name of our God in Chinese is the Chinese word for it, not even a onomatopoeia for God or Allah. It is pronounced entirely differently, so that if you do not know Chinese, you would never know that it is the name of God.
Jeffrey’s views are so indefensibly defensive of Deputy Minister of Internal Security Johari’s order to ban our Herald just because of the word “Allah” in the Bahasa version, which i subscribe to, as to be seen to be too localized, and not globalized. Or is he eyeing the post as his spokesman?
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 05.56
A simple reason behind all this.
The Malays have nothing to be called their own. From the language, culture, religion and folklores. Everything was borrowed from other civilisations far advanced than theirs, mixed and matched. Which is why, they have to create something that belongs to them, and exclusively just to them.
However, they lack the ingenuity and intelligence, something biological that prevail no matter how hard they try to change. Even a simple thing like Allah also they can’t defend its exclusiveness for Malays, because they just do not know how to work to get things right. They can only randomly defend without concrete evidence.
Just like the dispute with Singapore over the sovereignity of the few rocks south of Johor at ICJ. When they can’t defend a case, they use doctored evidence.
Come on UMNO. Stop making us international jokes. We are not clowns like you.
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 07.21
I am quite sure you all will agree the Minister is not stupid nor that he could not understand “Allah” is just a word which could mean whatever the author wanted it to mean..
Thus we are not talking about rationality … I suppose .. some kind of a inpulse, an inborn response created from this sort of environment in Malaysia ?, not likely genetic
Could it be “Inferiority Complex” ? Does this explain also the “waving of kris?”
Just pray and hope, in his next generation, their children would be more confident and could play on the same level as the rest of the world.
Till then, just learn to “endure”. I learn in life never to argue with a “drunk”
Good Luck malaysia
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 13.23
dear farish noor,
you seem to be very ignorant in understanding your own religion Islam, shame on you, i as former christian disagree the usage of Allah in malay, make it simple oh you anti muslim yourself,i dare the learned christian scholars to use it in the English bible…if that the name used in pre Islam era.
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 20.54
The obsession to claim the word “Allah” for their exclusive use despite its historical applications to describe the One God in many languages clearly reveals the insecurity and lack of confidence of certain people in their own religion in Malaysia.
How else can you explain the deliberately blinkered view that only now chose to ignore what has been universally accepted for thousands of years. And who are these mere mortals who only has a fleeting moment on this earth to try to change and distort milleniums of historical facts for that few moments of political glory.
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 22.35
Hahahahah come on guys ,Again I say this to you. Do it in the general elections denied those lazy and irresponsible people the 2/3 majority.
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 24.15
Shanghainese (mostly non Muslim) use this “All..” very often when they speak in their dialect. It simply means ” I ” in their dialect. Why create an issue? let them copyright what they want lah!
If this “copyright” is spread to the world, ppl will just hv a good laugh at Msia, Dia orang tu terlalu senang, mesti cari sikit isu, main main lah!
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 29.41
Jeffery,
practical reasons…will there be confusion? Maybe maybe not but to say it will means that we are saying that average Malaysian are not so clever. I do not think that the word Allah will create confusion. The word has been used in Sabah and Sarawak for a long time now and there has not been any issues. why now? why can it become confusing or only can be used in Islam when clearly the word is Arabic and used by other religions. Sabahans used a lot more of BM in their daily live than we in peninsular and denying them the right to use the language is against all the laws in the country.
On the hand our ministers and deputies are all HP6. They know crap and it shows in the way they manage. These buggers are paranoid. But lets not whack the normal Malays. They are not as dumb or as paranoid or insecure like the politicians.
December 28th, 2007 at 12: 36.55
As a young boy in a primary school in Johor, I learnt to sing the Johor state anthem, “Allah Peliharakan Sultan ….” At that time, I was naive of the religious terminology until someone highlighted to me that I am praying to a Muslim God. That confused me and I had to ask around. Later, I learnt to associate Allah with the term the Almighty God. Then I learnt from my father the British national anthem, “God Save the Queen”. That settled my mind and I began to sing the state anthem with gusto as I realised and believed it was my prayer to God for a just Sultan.
It was in the mid-1980’s that I learnt that a certain ministry had banned the import of Bahasa Malaysia bibles because of a list of terms declared exclusively for Muslims, among them “Allah”. I was pretty upset then that we have “little napoleons”, who usurped the language in the name of religion.
I recently attended a couple’s wedding service between a Catholic and a Buddhist. The priest , who presided the service in his sermon, whenever he used the term God qualified it with these words, “whosoever you perceive him to be”, keeping in mind those present who were of different faiths. He reminded that neither spouse should attempt to convert the other and that this marriage symbolizes the multi-cultural and multi-religious aspect of Malaysia.
How aptly and beautifully said!
Coming back to the issue at hand, I am shocked at the Johari’s declaration and would recommend that he be sent for re-education on religious sensitivity. I can’t wait to hear the court’s declaration on this issue.
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 12.59
Einstein once said, “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 18.51
It is like calling the same father as ayah, dad, daddy, bapa,….
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 28.24
Guys,
I am not a muslim, but if a muslim wants to use my God’s name for his prayers, go ahead. I would be very proud of it.
What’s wrong with Badawi’s government? Why these guys are so shallow minded? Who is running the country now? Badawi seems to busy flying in his plane although the country is in the brink of deep chaos.
Is the country on auto-pilot? Anyone can do anything they want!!!!!!!!
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 31.00
///….Jeffrey’s views are so indefensibly defensive of Deputy Minister of Internal Security Johari’s order to ban our Herald just because of the word “Allah†in the Bahasa version, which i subscribe to, as to be seen to be too localized, and not globalized. Or is he eyeing the post as his spokesman?…../// - DAPHNE
No, I’m not. I am happy enough being what I am.
People like Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum and other UMNOputras have all the powers in every sense of the word and they cannot be easily evicted by the ballot box.
If we want to oppose them for riding roughshod over our rights, on what resources can we draw on and to whom can we depend on to level the playing field of contest?
The Courts? Ask R Subashini. Her minor victory in securing the judgment that syariah courts cannot dissolve a civil marriage is phyrric and cannot even compensate her for not being able to prevent her husband Saravanan from converting their eldest son, Dharvin Joshua, and contesting custody for the other child as well.
The point is when dealing with UMNOputras with all the advantage of power, the only resources we can draw are moral righteousness of our cause and irrefutable logic of our approach. Hindraf may have the first but lacking the second how could it contest in longer term the draconian laws arrayed against its leaders?
The same with Johari.
There is no point in calling him or others like him names – morons or hypocrites.
It does not advance our cause or undermine theirs.
Tackle and pre-empt him where he comes from – ie. if he comes out with this approach to justify, how would you reply and demolish what he puts forth, and if he comes out with another angle, how to show that too has no foundation in moral, law or logic giving the other side absolutely no room to justify whatever they want to do.
That’s the least we can do - with our limited resources.
If we can’t even give a cogent response and reply if he raises a certain point grounded (say) on the ‘practical approach’ that I stated above – or if I were to raise it for him for discussion, the best we can do here is to say I covet for his job – where do we stand and what chance have we got to make them change their mind?
Let’s look at realities. We cannot assume or afford to underestimate that the other side are fools.
If they were, they would not be able to manipulate the system to stay 50 years in power notwithstanding the abuse thereof and the many shenanigans.
So be careful : when dealing with a superior opponent our position must be built upon irrefutable moral imperatives and impregnable logical foundation as opposed to theirs. Otherwise we can’t even begin.
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 34.48
Little Birds close to churches told Screenshots that OKT and FAK have been tasked to mediate and to persuade the plaintiffs to withdraw a lawsuit against Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi, in his capacity as the Internal Security Minister, and the Malaysian government.
Last week, December 10, a Sabah church sued Abdullah and the government for banning the importation of Christian children books from Indonesia. [ SEE STATEMENT HERE ]
Sabah Sidang Injil Borneo (SIB), or the evangelical church of Borneo, is the largest Christian denomination in the state.
According to media reports, Sabah Sidang Injil Borneo Church’s lawyer Lim Heng Seng had submitted a certificate of urgency to the court to obtain the hearing today.
However, when the case was brought up for mention at the Kuala Lumpur High Court in Jalan Duta today, it was postponed to January 15 next year.
Senior federal counsel Azizah Nawawi, who is representing the government, requested for an adjournment on the ground that “several relevant parties are in the midst of discussion to resolve the issue”.
The plaintiff’s lawyer did not object to the defendants’ application.
http://www.jeffooi.com/2007/12/okt_and_fak_to_mediate_in_saba.php
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 42.30
Why is the Catholic Weekly going to court? Why are they so obssesed in using “Allah” for GOD?
In any lingo or religion “GOD” sounds great and it refers to the ALMIGHTY. A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. Let Johari and all the other pea-brained nuts in UMNO believe that Allah is only for them.
December 28th, 2007 at 13: 58.16
Rocky, thanks for the comments. You and I, most in this blog and even average Malaysian may not in reality be confused, as you said. But is that the angle from which our friend Johari comes from? He is talking about Article 11(4) whether explicitly stated or not. He is referring to some (even though not all) of “protected” and the uninitiated amongst his constitutency or supporters. The fact that you said “maybe or maybe not” in relation to the possibility of confusion is already good enough for him (the may be part) knowing his agenda.
The word Allah has been used in Sabah and Sarawak (I think even here in the Peninsula) for a long time now and there has not been any issues until now. Why now? That’s a good point. It is like encroaching on pre-existing right of ours but he’ll just say that when an anomaly of expression need to be rectified, then its better late than never! They’ll justify whatever they want to do to shore up their agenda of political support. Like the old saying goes the Devil himself may cite scripture for his own cause. To refute it, one must address the central and practical point how the use of Allah in Bahasa in our special multiracial/cultural/religious milieu cannot possibly confuse the most inexperienced and uninitiated muslim who happens to stumble onto this congregation and read or hear what has been said. How do we do that? 
December 28th, 2007 at 14: 07.02
It has been aptly said that the usage of the word ” Allah ” predates the Islamic era. But then again being the OIC
Chairman, M’sia need to show the world something extra
ordinary. Thus, there are many ” FIRST ” being churn out as
often as you can imagine. I think the rots started in the early
80s’ and for that both MM and AI have a lot to answer in view
of their quest to Islamised the nation !
Let’s hope that more true muslims out there would speak out
and condemn such narrow mindedness especially from the current govt with too much power in hand. I would love to hear from our
Raja Muda of Perak - Dr Nazrin, the mufti up north and even the
evergreen blogger’s - RPK.
If we think out of the box, it can also be that some people is
out to undermine or even discredit PM’s, when we look at the timing of each event and it’s issue. Can some political experts
out there enlighten us ?
favor
December 28th, 2007 at 14: 13.47
“The priest , who presided the service in his sermon, whenever he used the term God qualified it with these words, “whosoever you perceive him to beâ€, keeping in mind those present who were of different faiths.”
Well said. Come on you Malay Muslims. Learn from other communities and open your mind. This is a globalised village, and indulging in protetionism will not do you any good. There are no such thing called sovereignity and pride if you can’t compete.
Take old China dynasties for example. They think they were self-sufficient and the centre of the universe and thus closed their door for centuries. When they realised, the Westerns were already far more advanced and thus they lost battles after battles, losing Hong Kong and Macau for example (there are more than meet the eyes of course).
The Malays experienced losing Malacca (the one they pride themselves so much) before due to their arrogant and uncivilised behaviour. Are you going to lose Malaysia again?
December 28th, 2007 at 14: 16.31
Everyone has been tiredly reading, I have some fruit for thought.
The High Court of KL might rule out that, The HERALD matter to do with “Allah” is under the jurisdiction of Syariah Court………….
This couldn’t be ridiculous, if Malaysia have lack of oppositions to stand for the minority right. Islamization is for all Malaysian, not the Muslim only.
Imagine, Catholic Church under the jurisdiction of Syariah Law……
So, dear friends, if you still want Malaysia to have justice and freedom, the next GE vote for change.
December 28th, 2007 at 14: 25.25
Malaysia-today or RPK just posted a piece on the term “Allah”
And i would love to hear from PAS, being a religious group regarding the issue.
December 28th, 2007 at 14: 28.32
This is what we get when bird-brains govern the country. Instead of tackling the obvious problems in the society, these baboons create problems for their rakyat. In the next electtions, my vote is for u Mr Lim.
December 28th, 2007 at 15: 02.38
Boneka Says:
Why is the Catholic Weekly going to court? Why are they so obssesed in using “Allah†for GOD?
Boneka, this is all about our rights. There is no obsession. If you dont go to court, tomorrow the government might ask you to change your name to “Asshole” as BONEKA is for their sole use.
Will you fight for your right? Or will you be obsessed with BONEKA? or will you accept to be called Asshole.
December 28th, 2007 at 15: 18.59
The Indonesians may yet decide to take back the song “Negaraku” because it came from Indonesia and hence cannot be used by Malaysia
December 28th, 2007 at 16: 07.17
Ok. We know that the minister and government is technically wrong about the word. We also understand why Herald and others want to fight for the right to use the word even though its not often and until now, no one noticed.
What does it all mean? It means each side look at the other side as insecure. But there is a difference. One side think it has some special right to be insecure while the other think not.
In the end, its really about that special right that one side think its entitled to why the other side don’t. This is our curse.
December 28th, 2007 at 16: 47.02
Hi everyone! Haven’t been here for many months. It’s nice to be back…
UMNO = U Must Not Object. And it’s true that UMNO is trying to appear more Islamic than the Arabs and PAS especially. Just to win back Kelantan.
We Catholics are not stooping down to UMNO’s level. We’ll fight the persecution thru proper means by praying and suing the govt (but I’m half expecting the judge to throw the case out of court)
Kindly check out my friend Kenny’s blog http://www.darnmalaysia.com
December 28th, 2007 at 17: 08.22
not all muslims don’t understand what is allah.
In armforces uniform have allah on badges and the non muslim wear and and eat pork with it and touch the word allah on the badges.
Please remove the tudung which is compulsory for non muslims ladies during parade in Police department. sickening sight.
December 28th, 2007 at 17: 18.28
“Boneka, this is all about our rights. There is no obsession. If you dont go to court, tomorrow the government might ask you to change your name to “Asshole†as BONEKA is for their sole use.â€
Libra2, I like the way you answer Boneka.
Boneka, hope you don’t mind being call Ass_ _ le ? Boneka by the name of Ass_ _le is still Boneka.
December 28th, 2007 at 17: 55.56
Dont u see this is a smokescreen?
The BN scums know very well that the next GE they will lose terribly. What better way than to consolidate the Malays.
They can have Hindraf to raise racial tensions btw the Malays n Indians. Now they target the Christians. And once we question them rgd the use of the word Allah, even the opposition Malays esp PAS will come out strongly in support of the BN goons. End of the day, the corrupted gets away again with another GE victory and we be screwed for another 5 years.
December 28th, 2007 at 18: 02.16
I usually use the word “Aler” whenever i try to be sarcastic and it sounds like Allah. So can ah MR Hadhari?
December 28th, 2007 at 18: 48.19
“The High Court of KL might rule out that, The HERALD matter to do with “Allah†is under the jurisdiction of Syariah Court………….” -vckc72
The Syariah Courts have jurisdiction only over persons who are Muslims and Christians are strictly excluded. But here one never knows.
I heard that some of our states have laws (religious enactments) that prohibit the use of Malay-language religious terms such as usage of the term “Allah†for God by Christians, but (until Johari’s latest controversy) are not widely known, as the authorities did not enforce them actively. If they do, then the issue of article 121(1)A of the Constitution may be raised.
December 28th, 2007 at 18: 54.45
If the word “Allah†is exclusive to Islam, isn’t it wonderful that other religions acknowledge “Allah†in their holy books or publications? If they are serious, Johari, together with his stupid boss, must have their heads checked by a shrink to cure their inferiority complex. But somehow I agree with Joetan that this is a clumsy strategy of fishing for Malay votes in the next General Election. I sincerely hope it backfires.
December 28th, 2007 at 19: 05.39
I do not think that our minister truly believe that the use of “Allah” in the bible would confuse the Muslims. The reason for imposing the ban is more likely due to other needs like: a) Diverting attention away from the Hindraf related issues. b) The use of ISA on the five Hindraf leaders.
Remember…. politicians are a cunning breed of humans. It is better to be criticized for being ignorant than being condemned for the actions taken against the Hindraf group.
December 28th, 2007 at 19: 07.28
Since Malaysia was declared an “Islamic state/nation” by the last PM, the screws have been turning against all other religions especially wrt to the conversions into the Muslim religion to escape the secular courts and even resulting to body-snatching cases for burial.
Regarding the discussions to avoid going to court, it reminded me of the film “The Mission” (made 1980s) about how religious leaders just did not do anything to prevent the massacre of the natives in S America so that their positions would not be affected.
http://malaysiawatch3.blogspot.com/2007/12/religious-persecution-in-malaysia.html
December 28th, 2007 at 20: 33.30
If Ikut Suka Aku, it will be ah…lah…I have asked before and I will ask again. Ever wonder about the moon crescent and the five pointed star ? Moon ? Star ?
December 28th, 2007 at 21: 10.57
YB, take note that with each impending general election
a controvesy will appear, related to usage of ” Allah ” ?
The last round according to (cnsnews.com of April 17,
2003) were issued related to the Iban’s bible on the use
of word as such.
Later on from the same source and on May 01, 2003, the
acting PM (current PM) said that it be allowed for the Iban’s
bible to print the word ” Allah ” instead. I personally sense
something not right ? Are they trying to use it as a
bargaining tool or trade-off with consent later to get votes
from the Christian community ?
With over 850,000 people of Catholic faith, I think it is a
political ploy. These thick face politicians will soon turn
around and offers a compromise fishing for votes in return
or may use it to prop up younger generation Malays
sentiment over the lost of this exclusive word in their lingo
and shows that UMNO is protecting what umnoputras
wanted and also BM.
It is not an issue over just a word but rather the rights
accorded to a citizen of this land. Trust all bloggers out
there would have had known by now who to vote for ?
December 28th, 2007 at 21: 11.21
“The Syariah Courts have jurisdiction only over persons who are Muslims and Christians are strictly excluded. But here one never knows.” Jeffrey
Because here, the jurisdiction of our civil courts is being whittled down - a process the acceleration of which has to be haltered or else it will lead to the final disintegration of the Malaysian community as we know it. The war of attrition between secularists who believe in the supremacy of our civil courts over matters relating to their constitutional rights, and religious ideologists and ideologues who believe that Islam has a special place in the life of this nation, that everything Muslim must take precedence even calling for the surrendering of the constitutional and human rights of non-Muslims.
It is time Parliament ends its abdication of the role given to it by the Constitution, abandon its interpretative approach to Article 121(1A) of our Constitution and adopt instead a ‘common sense’ approach which requires that all Articles of our Constitution be interpreted to protect the rights of all citizens.
December 28th, 2007 at 22: 01.10
This country has gone to the dogs - pretty much.
December 28th, 2007 at 22: 09.04
If one were to abide by the skewered logic of the Minister concerned, then presumably the language of Christianity (if it had one) would be Aramaic, or perhaps Latin. — Farish A. Noor
skewer - verb [with obj.] fasten together or pierce with a pin or skewer: [as adj.] (skewered) skewered meat and fish. (Example: “Skewer the meat for the BBQ”)
skew — [with obj.] make biased or distorted in a way that is
regarded as inaccurate, unfair, or misleading: the curriculum is skewed towards the practical subjects.
skewed logic rather than skewered logic ?
Farish got to be a connoisseur of good foods; may still be savoring good foods while writing.
Jokes aside, Farish’s article is really good food for thought, a must read for Deputy Minister of Internal Security Johari. Maybe Zam should forward it as email to him.
December 28th, 2007 at 22: 36.31
ISLAM HADHARI=HARI-HARI DIA ADA HAD,MACAM-MACAM HAD AKAN DIHADKAN,IKUT SUKAHATI IMAM BESAR HARI ITU!
December 28th, 2007 at 22: 57.31
Dear Farish
I like to read your writes. You write with sense and responsibility. Now, the word ‘Allah’ has become another controversy in my beloved country called Malaysia, where three quarter of the ruling population in the BN coalition comprised of ‘impotent’ VIPs who is in the habits of making themselves look small every time they say or do something. Its indeed strange, how this one word is being protected to such an extent where the non-muslims are not allowed to use it, be it verbally or in printed forms. Do they ever realise, that day by day, the element of fanaticism is engulfing our society? By this kind of act, they are defying the whole concept of God by saying that ALLAH is not GOD, ALLAH is ALLAH and GOD is GOD, whereas we the non-Muslims do not make much fuss over this differences in sound and spelling. We understand the concept of GOD or ALLAH is not going to change by play of words. I know they are many liberal Muslims who understands this, but sadly they do not make up the ruling ‘gangs’.
Proton Iswara - The word ‘iswara’ was believed to be the name of a butterfly ‘Papilio iswara’, but anyone ever thought where does this word ‘iswara’ came from? It is a sanskrit word, meaning the highest singular divinity we all call GOD in English. Please do not divide the community by this kind of stupid play of words. Please make the people realise that by whatever names one may call HIM, HE still remains the same principle ever. PLEASE BE LIBERAL. GOD BLESS
December 28th, 2007 at 23: 38.42
If Muslims are so easily confused, why blame it and take it against the Christians?
December 28th, 2007 at 23: 54.58
If the word “Allah” is so sacred as claimed, then don’t blare Muslim prayers through the loud speakers on top of mosque. This way they are transmitting it to non-Muslims who are not halal and who are not entitled to even hear the word “Allah”.
December 29th, 2007 at 00: 30.02
Let this controversy spin longer. At least the Catholics in this country has guaranteed their votes for the Opposition.
December 29th, 2007 at 00: 59.57
What if someone name his son Tan Ah Lah…..Everyone will call him Ah Lah….
December 29th, 2007 at 01: 50.15
It could be worse! What if his father is Lu Too Han??
December 29th, 2007 at 01: 57.15
Remember our dumb, dumber, and dumbest minister’s justification of the song “Rasa Sayang” when Indonesian’s law makers wanted to stop Malaysia for singing it?
December 29th, 2007 at 02: 01.01
Then there is the standard clause in all commercial contracts which refers to the “act of God” hoping to escape liability - blaming God rather than men.
Which God should we refer to??
Should such contracts now be rephrased to give reverence to the God of all Muslims i.e. Allah? What if the aggrieved party, a non-Muslim, claims that it is not his God and the defendant is therefore liable?
December 29th, 2007 at 02: 16.56
Allah shanghai nin = I am Shanghaiese
December 29th, 2007 at 03: 41.06
If only Muslims can use the word “Allah” as recently stated by another low-IQ and silly BN-related Deputy Inernal Security Minister, then only Christians can use the word “God”.
Hence, Muslims cannot use “Oh my God!” when they are feeling excitedor sad, or experiencing climax while making love….. Perhaps, somebody should patent this word “God” to prevent any Muslim from using it to say: “Oh my God! I am coming…”; “Oh my God! I am late for work…”; “Oh my God! I have forgotten to wear my underwear…”; etc.
I wonder why the Muslim people from the Arabic-speaking countries have never claimed ownership of the word
“Allah”? Perhaps, the Malaysian government under the current premiership of AAB should offically annouce to the whole world that the word “Allah” can only be used by Muslims in Malaysia. Better still, install signboards and billboards that read “ONLY MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED TO USE THE WORD “ALLAH” IN MALAYSIA” in all entry points, such as KLIA, to warn non-Muslim visitors to Malaysia.
Malaysia really Boleh!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 08: 08.19
My questions to all non-muslim Malaysians,
1) Do we want BN-led govn to continue robbing our rights and privileges in matter concerning our daily activities? If no, time to vote for a change.
2) Do we want UMNO-led govn to force the Islamic values (eg. tudung wearing for the ladies) and implement Syariah Law(eg. Subashini case) on our day to day and daily affairs? If no, it is time to vote for a change.
There is no true freedom for the rakyat in govn led by muslim majority UMNO leaders.
December 29th, 2007 at 08: 27.59
In malay folk-lore we find Vishnu, the preserver, Brahma the creator, Betara Guru (Kala) and S’ri all invoked in Malays, especially by Malay magicians (Pawang and Bomoh). Of all the greater deities of the Hindu system, Betara Guru is unquestionably the greatest. In Hikayat Sang Sembah, the tales of Sang Sembah, Betara Guru appears as a supreme god with Brahma and Vishnu and some subordinate deities. It is Betara Guru who alone has the “water of life”, the elixir of life, which can restore life to dead humans and animals. To the Malay of old, then, and to the Malay bomohs even of the present day in whom are preserved these notions, “Tok Betara Guru” or any one of the corruptions which his name now bears, was all-powerful god who held the place of Allah before the adveent of Islam, and was a spirit so powerful that he could restore the dead to life. All prayers were addressed to him.
Muslim religious teachers in Malaysia today still preach the Islamic concept of heaven in a terminology which is neither Malay nor Arabic, but Hindu. The sanskrit word “Syurga” is always used in connection with the Islamic concept of paradise. The proper Arabic word for this is actually “Al-Jannah”. In the same way, the Hindu religious term “neraka” or hell is used by Muslim Malays to explain the Islamic concept of hell. The Arabic word for hell is “Al-Nar” or the place of fire. Then the Muslim fast, the annual religious abstention from food and drink, is known by the Sanskrit term “puasa”. A Muslim religious teacher is often called “guru”, another Hindu religious term, in fact the name of a Hindu deity, Betara Guru. The Muslim prayer is among the Malays, called “sembahyang”. “Sembah” in Sanskrit means to pray, and “yang” is a Sanskrit term meaning divinity or conjuring respect, as in “Sang Yang Tunggal”, the most divine one, and “Yang Dipertuan”.
The Home Minister should take concerted efforts to remove this pollution in Islam which is leading the muslims astray into hinduism. All those sanskrit words should be done away with.
December 29th, 2007 at 10: 29.55
I was never a student of Malay literature, but the influence of Hinduism in Malay folk-lore is undeniable. What is worse is that most Malays confused animism, Hinduism with Islam.
December 29th, 2007 at 10: 38.14
“Catholics and Copts alike exclaim ‘Masha-allah’, ‘Wallahi’, ‘ya-Rabbi’, ‘Wallah-u allam’, and of course ‘Allahuakbar’ day in, day out, everywhere they go. The coptic taxi driver blares out ‘By Allah, cant you see where you are parking??†as he dodges the obstable ahead. The Catholic shopkeeper bemoans “Ya Allah, ya Allah! You can only offer me two pounds for the scarf? Wallahi, my mother would die if she heard that! Ya-Rabbi, ya-Rabbi!†Farish A Nor
You see, BNseedell, many Malays ignorant of the Arabic language and Arab culture, have not gone anywhere or exposed to outside influences, would be surprised to know that words like “Masha-allah” “Wallah-u allam” and “Allahuakbar” have nothing to do with Islam.
December 29th, 2007 at 12: 08.47
It is common to hear “ya allah mak engkau, bodohnya!” in the coffee stall.
December 29th, 2007 at 12: 14.51
“Godmother” in Malay translation shall be “Allah” + “mak”, or simply “Alamak”. Hahaha…
December 29th, 2007 at 12: 20.29
Without the twist, how would you expect UMNO to be in power for more than half a century?
December 29th, 2007 at 12: 38.02
“The Christian usage of the word ‘Allah’ predates Islam. ‘Allah’ is the name of God in the old Arabic Bible as well as in the modern Arabic Bible used by Christians in Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei and other places in Asia [and] Africa, where the languages that are in contact with Arabic have been using the word ‘Allah’ to refer to God,” he said.
“In Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia, the word ‘Allah’ has been used continuously in the printed edition of Matthew’s Gospel in Malay in 1629, in the first complete Malay Bible in 1733 and in the second complete Malay Bible in 1879 until today in Perjanjian Baru and Alkitab,” he added.
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/itunalily2/20071229
December 29th, 2007 at 15: 01.54
jeffrey,
I think the best way to handle this currently is to take them to the court which has been done. let the outcome of the case determine whether is was wrong or right.My only concern if the judiciary will rule fairly..as long as it is fair, we should respect the decision. at the courts, one can use Farish’s arguments. this is best we can do with limited resources as you said.
But the christians especially in Sabah and Sarawak whom a majority are bumiputras should vote wisely in next GE.Make a stand. The christian bumiputras should not allow themselves to be 2nd or 3rd class bumis and should not allow some HP6 MP/minister to say you don’t like this, leave the country.
Guys calling names will not settle it. As jeffery said best to defend your views with good logic.
Happy new year all!!!
December 29th, 2007 at 15: 50.06
“I was never a student of Malay literature, but the influence of Hinduism in Malay folk-lore is undeniable. What is worse is that most Malays confused animism, Hinduism with Islam.” - undergrad2
I understand, though have not sought more concrete evidence, that ‘mandi safar’ which Muslim Malays (probably more in the southern states of Malacca & Johore) have roots in Hinduism.
December 29th, 2007 at 15: 52.43
Sorry typo error …should read
“that ‘mandi safar’ which Muslim Malays (probably more in the southern states of Malacca & Johore) practised for many years have roots in Hinduism.”
December 29th, 2007 at 18: 11.30
I was away but was jolted into reading the newspapers when I saw “Landmark court rulings†on The Sun front page. When I turned to the 3rd page, there I read it: “Only Muslims can use ‘Allah.’ It is a Muslim word. It’s from the Arabic language.†(Johari Baharom The Sun 28th Dec 2007.)
If the ruling of the word “Allah†is based on that sentence, what hope do the Christians have? The statement is completely unlearned (rude word: idiotic). Upon returning to my home, I saw Farish Noor had said it. How could a Deputy Home Minister, who is completely ignorant on a particular subject, be made a judge on the same?
Incidentally while I was away, I watched an Arabic Movie – a special movie. To make to story short, Johari, it was a Arabic Christian movie. I heard distinctively the Arabs praising Allah. The whole content of the movie could be disturbing in our plural society but there were these Arab Christians praising Allah as Allah, and no other name!
How would an Arab Christian call Allah? Answer this question Johari. There are at least 20 Arab Churches in the US. There are Arabic churches in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq. What word would you “allow†for these Arab to use as a substitute of ‘Allah’? Johari, I don’t know how old you are, but you are a real joke.
Sometimes I wonder why Christian thinkers like Dr Ng Kum Weng, Daniel Ho etc are silent at the moment. Now I know why. How to pit them against Johari’s nonsensical point of argument?
December 29th, 2007 at 18: 33.15
This is something interesting to share with Malaysians:
TEXT OF ‘PHONE CALL’ Published regarding the assassination of Benazir Bhutto ….
Saturday, 29 December, 2007
ISLAMABAD: Here is a translation of the transcript of the alleged telephone conversation yesterday from senior Al Qaeda leader Baitullah Mehsud to another militant that the Pakistan interior ministry said had been intercepted after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.
The ministry said it had been translated from Pashto to Urdu.
This is a translation from the ministry’s Urdu to English.
Maulvi Sahib (MS): Asalaam Aleikum (Peace be with you)
Baitullah Mehsud (BM): Waleikum Asalam (And also with you)
MS: Chief, how are you?
BM: I am fine.
MS: Congratulations, I just got back during the night.
BM: Congratulations to you, were they our men?
MS: Yes they were ours.
BM: Who were they?
MS: There was Saeed, there was Bilal from Badar and Ikramullah.
BM: The three of them did it?
MS: Ikramullah and Bilal did it.
BM: Then congratulations.
MS: Where are you? I want to meet you.
BM: I am at Makeen (town in South Waziristan tribal region), come over, I am at Anwar Shah’s house.
MS: OK, I’ll come.
BM: Don’t inform their house for the time being.
MS: OK.
BM: It was a tremendous effort. They were really brave boys who killed her.
MS: Mashallah (Thank God). When I come I will give you all the details.
BM: I will wait for you. Congratulations, once again congratulations.
MS: Congratulations to you.
BM: Anything I can do for you?
MS: Thank you very much.
BM: Asalaam Aleikum.
MS: Waaleikum Asalaam.
= AFP =
Remark:
How do you feel after reading the above transcript being translated to English? When MS said “Mashallah (Thank God)” we don’t know which God he was referring to??
December 29th, 2007 at 18: 41.00
I think the Government should send all of its ministers back to primary schools, because some of them are really imbercile., For God sake Allah is an arabic word and there are millions of Arabs in this world who are Christians., Is the Government not ashamed that they have morons of ministers running the country. May Allah bless Govrnment of Malaysia Morons with bliss and intellectual minds at the very least.
December 29th, 2007 at 18: 49.03
Should not the Hindu Sangam, not the Samy Velu mob, copy right the word “Bumi Putra” and insist only Indians can use the word as it is an Indian word ….minas the n.
Give these Malays the same treatment.
December 29th, 2007 at 19: 30.07
On the other hand, the Church needs to do some serious thinking:
In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, “South Arabia’s stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations.” Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god’s name “Sin” is a part of such Arabic words as “Sinai,” the “wilderness of Sin,” etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
December 29th, 2007 at 20: 56.19
Just as David Beckham made the word ‘metatarsal’ become known to most football fans, and just as Mahathir gave most Malaysians an opportunity to learn the new word ‘recalcitrant’, now this Hisahammuddin has just taught many of us another word - ‘antediluvian’ - meaning old, outmoded, primitive, antiquated.
Thanks to AAB, the ‘learn a word a day’ is “somnambulism†meaning “sleepwalkingâ€
Thanks to Johari Baharom, now the plain old exclamation ‘alamak’ is given a new twist by some posters above. And may we hope that ‘certain’ patrons in a restaurant upon looking at the word ‘ala carte’ in the menu do not interprete it to mean ‘Oh God, what prices!!’
December 29th, 2007 at 21: 49.56
Recently a Malay staff of mine said to me, he will no longer say Insyallah when he is trying to do something. He will just DO IT!
December 29th, 2007 at 21: 51.59
Morons for ministers? Geez most of them look like thugs, crooks and gangsters. They run the mafias through the police force and they control the ACA and AG and the Judiciary.
No hope for malaysia! Even CJ was outvoted!
December 29th, 2007 at 22: 37.50
I don’t know the real motif of banning Christians/Catholics to use Allah in Malaysia (is tantamount to West Malaysia in UMNO bigot’s mind!) by UMNO bigots.
1. “Allah” was used by Christians in Sabah and Sarawak long before Malaysia was formed.
2. “Allah” is word borrowed from Arabic language. Why Malay version Quran is not using Tuhan or Hyang instead of “Allah”. Some Malays think Allah is exclusively for Islam is merely a side effect of long-term brainwashing by UMNO ulamaks.
3. If Allah is only God exclusively for Islam, meaning non-muslims shall have another God called Tuhan or Patung, may be a fake one as some Taliban-like Muslims believe.
My guess is UMNO is trying to manipulate religion issue in uniting Malays under their banner before 12nd General Election.
December 29th, 2007 at 23: 19.51
“What word would you “allow†for these Arab to use as a substitute of ‘Allah’? Johari, I don’t know how old you are, but you are a real joke.”
Somebody please check his academic credentials, background etc.
I put the entire blame on the ‘chief cleric’ Abdullah Badawi for not issuing any ‘fatwa’ for his boys to follow. He alone more than anybody else, is responsible for the mess the country is in.
It is not a case of poor leadership or a failed leadership but no leadership at all. When is he going to realize that he is not chief secretary to the government?
December 30th, 2007 at 00: 11.25
Words like Ayatollah, Alamak, Masallah, Saallah, Baallah, Taallah, etc should be banned also. becos it uses the word allah.
December 30th, 2007 at 00: 15.11
Dear Readers.
I refer to remarks on the word “Allah”. Malaysiatoday claimed that Malays are confused due to brainwashing by UMNO ulamak. I am not so sure about the allegation on brainwashing. Confused, maybe yes on understanding of Islam but as far as I know, no ulamak in UMNO stood that low.
Some segment of Malaysians are confused with race and religion. Malay, Chinese, Arabs , Indians are races. Islam, Christianity, etc are religions. As an example, several years ago, Malaysians often came across Arqam followers in flowing robe, green in colour.
They claimed to dress like Prophet Muhammad. Muslims are reminded in the Kuran that Prophet Muhammad is the best example for human to follow. But what these Arqam failed to realize that Prophet Muhammad was also an Arab. What he wore was an Arab dress, typical of 6th century .
If Prophet Muhammad dressed like an Arab , that was because he was an Arab. Cultural inclination is evident here. There is no such thing as a fixed Islamic dress. A Baju Melayu worn by Malay males during Hari Raya is as Islamic as a three piece suit by their Western counterparts in temperate climate. Islam allows cultural variety so long it complies with religious requirement.
My point is that race can sometimes be confused with religion. The above incidents shows how shallow the understanding of Islam by Arqam followers. What Muslims are urged to follow is not the dressing of Prophet Muhammad, but rather his character such as honesty, humility, mercy, wisdom, care for his subjects and high regards for women.
I myself would not take someone who dressed like that of Arqam followers as my employee.
As for Johari’s remark, I do not think he or UMNO tries to manipulate religion to win the election. Without that remarks, UMNO’s supremacy in Malaysian politics is unchallenged, at least in these few years to come. What the remarks implies is that he, like other mere mortals, can also make mistake. But certainly not to manipulate religion.
I am sure people of other communities also sometimes show how shallow the understanding on Malays by saying “Masuk Islam means masuk Melayu”. This is not a blame game situation. it just shows lack of understanding.
December 30th, 2007 at 00: 46.08
This is what happen when you put a lack-of-knowledge people to in-charge our daily life.
December 30th, 2007 at 01: 23.42
Shamshul,
How do you explain the banning of religious material imported by the church, and the refusal of a printing permit because the church refuses to stop its use of bahasa Malaysia?
Article 11 (3) protects the rights of non-Muslims.
Is there not an abuse of discretion under the Printing Presses and Publications Act?
December 30th, 2007 at 02: 18.30
Frankly speaking, majority of Christians if not all will surely be voting for the opposition. If BN wants any hope in the next GE, they better pray that their religion play-acting will make them stand united and play to their tune and vote them back in for another 5 yrs of corruption. For I know, we dont condone corruption nor corrupted people. I dunno abt you?
December 30th, 2007 at 02: 23.05
I think some smart alec UMNO goon will soon copyright it. He can make tons of money from it.
December 30th, 2007 at 02: 38.57
UMNO scare tactics are repetitive simple, internally they are creating religious threat against Islam (like the Allah wording incident) to warn Malay folks that Islam is in danger or insulted by non-Muslims.
Many of us should still remembered Tengku Razaki’s cross in his headgear gifted by Pairin was manipulated by UMNO to incite hatred and fear against Christians.
Externally they will threaten Chinese with another 513 bloodshed.
This is a fail-proof formula to win elections in Malaysia used by UMNO for last 50 years.
December 30th, 2007 at 04: 26.19
“UMNO scare tactics are repetitive simple, internally they are creating religious threat against Islam (like the Allah wording incident) to warn Malay folks that Islam is in danger or insulted by non-Muslims.”
We call that beating the drums of a narrow form of Malay nationalism - and Islamo facism.
December 30th, 2007 at 06: 14.30
I’m a former Malayan citizen (I left Malaya to study in the UK in 1958) and I’ve been a proud British citizen since 1965. I have been living in the UK ever since.
My son saw this article in the Guardian and passed it on to me so I thought I would share it with you.
Copyright ‘Allah’ by Ali Eteraz (December 29, 2007 8:30 AM)
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ali_eteraz/2007/12/copyright_allah.html
December 30th, 2007 at 09: 16.04
Najib has the nerve to warn ‘trouble-makers’ of dire consequences for those out to create chaos and instability. He’s beginning to speak like his boss PM Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. He doesn’t realise that those “trouble-makers” are the gobloks and baboons within UMNO - Johari Baharum, KJ the protected SIL, Hishammuddin Hussein Onn, Nazri Aziz and Zainuddin Maidin.
If Najib is able to control his bunch of gobloks and baboons, curb their nonsensical behavior, there’ll be peace in Malaysia but he and his boss don’t seem to do that rather, they condone their despicable actions.
What has “Allah” and “God” to do with Malaysia or UMNO for that matter? Do they have the copyright of usage?
December 30th, 2007 at 10: 18.27
Better still if they apply for international copyright on the use of the word “Allah”, then no other country in the world, including the nation of origin of Islam will be allowed to use this copyrighted word!
December 30th, 2007 at 10: 31.23
///Some segment of Malaysians are confused with race and religion. Malay, Chinese, Arabs , Indians are races.///— Shamsul Anuar.
Yes, Malay is conditional on religion whereas the others can be seperated from religion.
December 30th, 2007 at 10: 56.11
http://www.geocities.com/aizaris/suvarnabhumi.html
To prevent more plagiarism.
December 30th, 2007 at 11: 18.51
For some, it looks like it is such an astonishment being a Muslim. Empty vessels and new-comers to the religion make the most noise. Just how long have they been Muslims? Probably a couple of centuries in this archipelago. They are still jumping around. So, pardon them for doing so. In the first place, is Allah a Muslim? If he is a Muslim, then they have confined him for being only a Muslim and can God the almighty be confined within such walls of narrow ideologies?
I don’t believe in such crap!!!
December 30th, 2007 at 12: 21.46
Hey you all!!! Don’t forget the other issue.
That ole Jo is “GOD”, that is HE controls everyone who needs a permit to broadcast, print and publish. What HE says go. HE is the chief censor and bully.
So the mass media has to kowtow to him, worship him or else they close shop. They have to toe the line and be good obedient boys. Thats “Cemerlang, Terbilang and Gemilang” for you. “Freedom” is for him to decide.
December 30th, 2007 at 16: 15.51
from now on, the God in Malay would be TianZhu. Chinese don’t claim that it is our God or you cannot use it for Islam. In Chinese, you are welcome to write Allah as ??
December 30th, 2007 at 16: 16.17
from now on, the God in Malay would be TianZhu. Chinese don’t claim that it is our God or you cannot use it for Islam. In Chinese, you are welcome to write Allah as TianZhu
December 30th, 2007 at 18: 03.48
Dear Loh.
Many thanks for your remarks. Perhaps you still miss my point. My point is actually quite simple. Many of us are confused with religion and race, cultures.
Religion transcends political, cultural boundaries. Malay or any other races like Chinese, Arabs, Turkish tribe are not exclusive custodians of Islam just like Europeans are not the sole custodian of Christianity.
Johari made the mistake here. But certainly he is not trying to manipulate religion here. It just shows that he, being a mortal man, also make mistake just like you. You( and everybody else) can criticize him for his remarks or his point but do spare the insult on Malays or Islam or UMNO.
As Mr DJ said ” Empty vessel or newcomers to Islam…” Now there is no need for such remarks. Why ridicule a race for a mistake made by one man. Exactly this is the attitude that can be termed hostile. You expect people to have high regards on you but you are also hostile to them.
As for Malaysiatoday, it is up to you to accept reality. The very main reason why BN continue to maintain supremacy in Malaysian politics is actually quite simple. No opposition parties are able to emulate its tried and tested formula of political sharing.
BN continue to win due to vast majority( not necessarilry reflected here) of malaysians see it as the only coalition able to represent whole segments of Malaysia. To the Malays it is pointless to expect DAP to represent them when the party’s view often clashes with that of their interests. Hindraf was the latest proof. Instead of criticizing Hindraf for being extreme in its action, DAP seems to support a movement who has no qualm in depicting Malay, Islam in worst possible manner.
As for Chinese, they are not comfortable with PAS. Ask DAP. Its dalliance with PAS proved to be a disaster.
That does not mean I am denying existence of support for these 2 parties. What I am trying to say that overly simplistic view( aimed to discredit only) by remarks from people like Darkhorse shows denial of reality.
December 30th, 2007 at 18: 38.24
DID ROBERT LAU DO ANYTHING?
BN PUNISH YOU FIRST BY DOING NOTHING WRONG, AND THEN WE HAVE TO THANK THEM FOR NOT PUNISHING US?? WHAT KIND OF WORLD IS THIS?
“We thank (Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department) Tan Sri Bernard Dompok for his assistance, as well as the various news agencies and other media groups for supporting us with their wide coverage,” Father Lawrence said in a statement.
The paper has a circulation of 12,000 among the Catholic community.
When contacted, Dompok said he had brought the matter to Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi a few days before Christmas and Abdullah had promised to look into it.
December 30th, 2007 at 19: 02.59
So, before Dompok brought it up Badawi didn`t know.
Even though it was all over, and despite the fact that Sabah Evangelical church filed a suit followed by a certificate of urgency.
And though the Senior Federal Counsel Azizah Nawawi appeared in Court on Dec.27
http://sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=20340
Now Dompok has to be lying.
December 30th, 2007 at 20: 49.41
shamshul anuar,
I do not deny DAP and PAS cannot sleep on a same bed from day one.
Under the current political reality with the majority of Chinese and Indian are unhappy with BN, UMNO’s best strategy is to play racial and religion sentiment to make sure at least 70% Malay voters are voting them.
UMNO can play out Allah issue while MCA can play islamic state issue to negate the non-Malay support for opposition.
BN can win 2/3 is due to voting system favours the winner and Malay/bumi constituencies. Let’s recall 1999 GE, BN only got 54% while opposition got 46% number of votes, but this proportion of vote did not show up in parliament seats.
As long as 70% Malays are voting for UMNO, UMNO will win at least 50% parliament seats and stay as a dominant force.
UMNO is clever enough to know that Indian and Chinese are no longer to vote BN like in 1999 GE. Sacrifiling MCA and MIC for UMNO own survival is only choice for UMNO, and the best weopan is to incite religious sentiment amongst Malays.
You can go back to kampung surau and tell your Malay folks that chiristians are insulting islam by calling their God also as Allah. I am confident to say 99% of kampung malays in West Malaysia will buy-in your talk without a second thought.
December 30th, 2007 at 20: 58.36
///The very main reason why BN continue to maintain supremacy in Malaysian politics is actually quite simple. No opposition parties are able to emulate its tried and tested formula of political sharing. ///– Shamshul Anuar
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Let me advance my observations.
The way parliamentary constituencies have been set up ensures that Malays with a slight majority in population was able to obtain proportionately more seats. So long as Malays are satisfied with government policies, the government of the day will continue to be in power.
The ways the government ensured that Malays vote for them were actually quite simple. Firstly, the government overplayed Article 153, for example, only Malays were recruited as FELDA settlers, and over a million acres of land were developed using public funds into plantations for them, before May 13. Secondly, Malays were brainwashed to believe that UMNO is their savior, and without the party, it has no place under the Malaysian sun. To substantiate the warrior actions, the Malays are made to see that government actions are biased against non-Malays for their benefit. That created their entitlement mindset, and they rationalized it to be that the ‘privilege’ was bestowed because their forefathers came to Malaya earlier than the non-Malays, never mind that Orang Asli were the real indigenous people of this land. If that was not enough, it was then the religion which has given Malays the extra right, simply because the religion Islam is the official religion of the land. And now the powers-that-be even claims that this is an Islamic state though the founder prime minister clearly stated that Malaysia was secular.
The May 13 had many reasons assigned to it, but what was not true is it was a spontaneous display of hatred by the Malays against n0n-Malays because of economic disparity. The government whitewashed the incidents and set the perpetrators free, rather than brought them to justice. Hence the government created NEP, and used of distorted statistics to justify its actions. This is confirmed by the fact that until a year after the PM and DPM promised to reveal the way the most important statistics, the so-called 30% target was compiled, nothing has come out of it. The most telling confirmation was the statement by the most quoted son-in-law that even if 30% had been achieved, they would just move the target, and NEP would still fall short of the target!
Non-Malays were made to believe that May 13 had everything to do with the success at the GE in 1969 by the opposition parties. So they chose not to rock the boat in subsequent elections. That was the reason why even in the last UMNO GE, May 13 was used as a threat. In the process two million non-Malays satisfied Tun Razak foresight to be ‘good riddance’.
So BN continues to rule. It’s so simple. Since it is so simple to remain in power, why can’t they do what they like, such as giving contracts to their friend and cronies, giving the positions in the judiciary to the people who would look after their interest, giving power to the person who would listen to the wishes of the boss to get inconvenient politicians out of the way.
The non-Malays do not believe that the powers-that-be is interested to create a nation where the people have shared destiny, never mind what TDM cooked out his 9 challenges. Non-Malays are clear that BN is employing the boiling frog technique, and they will either be dead which they would not have any feeling after death, anyway, or they just leave when they are ready like the two million before them. The subsidiaries of UMNO who are sharing power with UMNOputras for wealth creation can also leave with fat bank accounts when the time comes. Yes, BN works on power sharing, but not for the community, but for themselves.
The countries which were way behind us are catching up with us every fast. We have disabled all the institutions that ensure rule of law in this country and replaced them with a system that employs rule by law. Our comparative advantage in institutions competence until the 1960s has been lost, and do we have to wonder why our per capita income is only about 1/4 that of Singapore which had no natural resources at all?
The BN government needs to be thrown out. Let PAS lead the next government. Let BNputras feel that politics is not the short cut to wealth and power, but to serve. Give BN a change to weed out the opportunists, and let them get elected based on track records rather than on the use of racial mix in electoral constituencies and racial politics.
December 30th, 2007 at 21: 16.06
“It just shows that he, being a mortal man, also make mistake just like you.” Shamshul
When a man makes mistakes, his flawed character comes at no cost to the nation but himself. But when a politician who is the people’s representative makes a mistake the entire nation has to pay for it. We’re paying for his mistake in more than one sense.
December 30th, 2007 at 21: 54.07
Shamshul,
Before the police corruption issue, before the hindraf issue and certainly before the “Allah” issue many of the pragmatists among us looked upon the opposition winning in more seats with guarded but raised optimism. Now talk of a visible swing to the opposition is punctuated by expressions of regret that things could be better.
Once again issues of race and religion provide safe harbor for UMNO.
Issues like corruption is forced to the back burner, to be looked again later and controlled as members of one family, of one ethnic group, the patriarch disciplining and exacting punishments upon the less favored, rather than members of one nation looking at issues like corruption as a national malaise the effects of which have long threatened to destroy the entire fabric our society.
Like many here, I’d like to see the wheels of change set in motion. The same wheels are now stalled because Malays are fast losing their sense of security. Agents of change have been thrown into disarray and a formula has yet to be found on how best to regroup. I’m afraid it will never be found - certainly not in time to reset the nation’s pulse.
December 30th, 2007 at 22: 56.49
“You can go back to kampung surau and tell your Malay folks that chiristians are insulting islam by calling their God also as Allah. I am confident to say 99% of kampung malays in West Malaysia will buy-in your talk without a second thought.” malaysiatoday.com
So you’re resigned to the fact that UMNO’s communal politics will always win the day?
The hope of the future generation is that one day Malaysians will be convinced that the good of the country requires that they cease to act as Malays, Chinese and Indians.
The political opposition is not much better because although membership in the DAP is not limited to one race, it is seen as a Chinese party. The same applies to PKR. Is it n