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	<title>Comments on: Herald controversy - Is Abdullah leader of Malaysian moderates protecting middle ground against extremists?</title>
	<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/</link>
	<description>for Malaysia</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66325</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 02:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66325</guid>
		<description>"These officers (Johaâ€¦etc) are wasting time saying n doing meaningless things" - cheng on soo

What else do you expect these people to do? Can they handle "big and important" things? Are they the least bit capable? That is why these so called government servants are the ones creating problems and interpreting the laws their ways. The purpose is to create opportunities to make RM RM RM and RM!!!!! But in this case is to show their superiority!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;These officers (Johaâ€¦etc) are wasting time saying n doing meaningless things&#8221; - cheng on soo</p>
<p>What else do you expect these people to do? Can they handle &#8220;big and important&#8221; things? Are they the least bit capable? That is why these so called government servants are the ones creating problems and interpreting the laws their ways. The purpose is to create opportunities to make RM RM RM and RM!!!!! But in this case is to show their superiority!</p>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66309</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66309</guid>
		<description>Tell me if there is "rasuah halal"!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell me if there is &#8220;rasuah halal&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66308</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66308</guid>
		<description>And don't forget these two words are made up of the same alphabets. Disrespecting one is equivalent to disrespecting the other!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And don&#8217;t forget these two words are made up of the same alphabets. Disrespecting one is equivalent to disrespecting the other!</p>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66306</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66306</guid>
		<description>Actually, the issue over the use of the word "Allah" is not important. What is more important is the word "Halal". High government officials in Malaysia stress so much on halal when they come to the food they consume and things they use but are they the least bit halal when it comes to accepting bribes? All bribes are non-halal according to Islam so why are these high officials corrupted! As if such big deal on the use of the word Allah then!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the issue over the use of the word &#8220;Allah&#8221; is not important. What is more important is the word &#8220;Halal&#8221;. High government officials in Malaysia stress so much on halal when they come to the food they consume and things they use but are they the least bit halal when it comes to accepting bribes? All bribes are non-halal according to Islam so why are these high officials corrupted! As if such big deal on the use of the word Allah then!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66272</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66272</guid>
		<description>BN certainly does not observe the rule of law! 

The judiciary having fallen victim to executive interference over the years has been interpreting the law to suit the needs of the ruling regime. What rule of law are you talking about? Rather than  the rule of law, we have instead,  the rule of men.

Non-enforcement of the laws, or their selective enforcement, to suit the political needs of the ruling regime certainly does not amount to observing the rule of law.

Selective prosecution, and more recently the prosecutorial misconduct by the prosecutor surely is no indication of a state that could be described as the rule of law - not by a long shot!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BN certainly does not observe the rule of law! </p>
<p>The judiciary having fallen victim to executive interference over the years has been interpreting the law to suit the needs of the ruling regime. What rule of law are you talking about? Rather than  the rule of law, we have instead,  the rule of men.</p>
<p>Non-enforcement of the laws, or their selective enforcement, to suit the political needs of the ruling regime certainly does not amount to observing the rule of law.</p>
<p>Selective prosecution, and more recently the prosecutorial misconduct by the prosecutor surely is no indication of a state that could be described as the rule of law - not by a long shot!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66204</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 06:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66204</guid>
		<description>///Bolehland observes rule by law, and laws are used to achieve the objectives of the powerful, the community or religion as the case may be/// - Loh.

Of course, I agree with theirs is politics of religion..so how do we counter that, if not by politics of logic (our only resource) as I raised in the most recent thread "Do Malaysian Muslims understand what 'Allah' means" by Farish Noor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>///Bolehland observes rule by law, and laws are used to achieve the objectives of the powerful, the community or religion as the case may be/// - Loh.</p>
<p>Of course, I agree with theirs is politics of religion..so how do we counter that, if not by politics of logic (our only resource) as I raised in the most recent thread &#8220;Do Malaysian Muslims understand what &#8216;Allah&#8217; means&#8221; by Farish Noor?</p>
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		<title>By: Loh</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66196</link>
		<dc:creator>Loh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66196</guid>
		<description>â€œwe go to the church on Sunday for prayers to God whilst muslims go to the mosques to pray to their God on Fridayâ€?---Jeffrey

I believe the sentence is very clear in english, when the same word God is used. Like somebody said in this blog before, everybody calls his father or mother his own way, and they know perfectly who they are, and who would respond.

In Malay language, the same word Allah can be used in two places, and people would know who they refer to.

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholders, and Allah lies in the mind of the believers; they can take to believe who they want.

But the issue is not a matter of logic, but politics of religion. The ban on the use of the word Allah is to tell people who write the Bahasa Malasia version that the route to Allah is through the mosque, and not the church. Bolehland observes rule by law, and laws are used to achieve the objectives of the powerful, the community or religion as the case may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œwe go to the church on Sunday for prayers to God whilst muslims go to the mosques to pray to their God on Fridayâ€?&#8212;Jeffrey</p>
<p>I believe the sentence is very clear in english, when the same word God is used. Like somebody said in this blog before, everybody calls his father or mother his own way, and they know perfectly who they are, and who would respond.</p>
<p>In Malay language, the same word Allah can be used in two places, and people would know who they refer to.</p>
<p>Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholders, and Allah lies in the mind of the believers; they can take to believe who they want.</p>
<p>But the issue is not a matter of logic, but politics of religion. The ban on the use of the word Allah is to tell people who write the Bahasa Malasia version that the route to Allah is through the mosque, and not the church. Bolehland observes rule by law, and laws are used to achieve the objectives of the powerful, the community or religion as the case may be.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66150</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66150</guid>
		<description>For example, in a church congregation conducted in Bahasa throughout, how does one say "we go to the church on Sunday for prayers to God whilst muslims go to the mosques to pray to their God on Frioday"?

Will it be "kita orang Kristian pergi ke gereja pada hari Ahad untuk bersembangyang kepada Allah manakala orang Islam pergi ke majid pada hari Jumat untuk bersembayang kepada Allah"?

Would there not be confusion then as we're talking of 2 different religious groups having a different understanding of their Gods? And when it comes to important matters of faith, would you not agree that there should not be ambiguity and confusion?

Yes we're all agreed that we should stem religious extremism whenever it rears its ugly head that is if what Johari ruled was motivated by or pandering to extremism but what if he said he was looking at the practical aspects of differentiating terminology in a multiracial society comprising, amongst others, Muslims and Christians abiding by article 11(4) of the Constitution/Merdeka Social Contract prohibiting propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam - and where a muslim (whether by inadvertance or intention) reading and hearing the same expression of "Allah" may get influenced by the teachings?
 by which article  et</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For example, in a church congregation conducted in Bahasa throughout, how does one say &#8220;we go to the church on Sunday for prayers to God whilst muslims go to the mosques to pray to their God on Frioday&#8221;?</p>
<p>Will it be &#8220;kita orang Kristian pergi ke gereja pada hari Ahad untuk bersembangyang kepada Allah manakala orang Islam pergi ke majid pada hari Jumat untuk bersembayang kepada Allah&#8221;?</p>
<p>Would there not be confusion then as we&#8217;re talking of 2 different religious groups having a different understanding of their Gods? And when it comes to important matters of faith, would you not agree that there should not be ambiguity and confusion?</p>
<p>Yes we&#8217;re all agreed that we should stem religious extremism whenever it rears its ugly head that is if what Johari ruled was motivated by or pandering to extremism but what if he said he was looking at the practical aspects of differentiating terminology in a multiracial society comprising, amongst others, Muslims and Christians abiding by article 11(4) of the Constitution/Merdeka Social Contract prohibiting propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam - and where a muslim (whether by inadvertance or intention) reading and hearing the same expression of &#8220;Allah&#8221; may get influenced by the teachings?<br />
 by which article  et</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66114</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/26/herald-controversy-is-abdullah-leader-of-malaysian-moderates-protecting-middle-ground-against-extremists/#comment-66114</guid>
		<description>What I mean is if there is a need to mention and describe in Bahasa  God as He is understood in Christianity and also in Islam during the same occasion...How to differentiate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I mean is if there is a need to mention and describe in Bahasa  God as He is understood in Christianity and also in Islam during the same occasion&#8230;How to differentiate?</p>
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