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	<title>Comments on: Malaysian Indian political awakening - must not fall into trap of being tarred &#8220;anti-Malay&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/</link>
	<description>for Malaysia</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anba</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-66601</link>
		<dc:creator>Anba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 07:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-66601</guid>
		<description>Shamshul Anuar,
I read your response with some questions on your claim like Hindraf accuses the Malaysian government of conducting etnic cleansing in the same league with that Serbians did to Bosnians. Where did you take this statement from. This is why you need to reference from where you took that statement. Without references, you are also acting like our 'pendekar' politicians who say things without thinking and without referencing.
I'm not against Malays becoming rich. But can the Malays become rich by competing with other races with merit and hard work? 

If the Malays can enter local Universities by competing with other races, then it's okay for Malays to become rich.

If the Malays 'birth rights' are taken away by abolishing the NEP and allow other races to compete in the economy equally, then it's okay for Malays to become rich.

If the government contracts are open to all races by means of competition and allowing all business owners ( of all races) to bid for the tenders, then it's okay for Malays to become rich.

When the three important aspects above are still practiced by the Government to help the Malays, why on earth should I be happy with Malays becoming rich? Shamshul, perhaps you are enjoying the privileges given to Malays in Malaysia. Put yourself in the life of an Indian or Chinese who have been discriminated by not getting a place in the local university, unable to compete fairly in business, and many other ways the other races are being discriminated. If you are the other race who was discriminated, would you then be angry when you see Malays enjoying all aspects of life when you can't even get to educate yourself? When Malays can enter the University with their scrappy results, why is the Government bargaining with non Malay students who obtained all A's by not giving them Medical seats? The government and all Malays who are enjoying these priveleges at the expense of other races suffering is truly a pathethic situation. 

Finally, I wonder why Malays pray 5 times a day, when in reality, they don't live up to God's expectation. Does God allow people to take away anothers rice bowl, anothers rights to be educated? I wonder how so many Malays sleep peacefully and with conscious at night. By saying all these, I'm not saying that you belong to that category. All I can say to you is , 'Tepuk Dada, tanyalah selera'.

God bless Malaysia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shamshul Anuar,<br />
I read your response with some questions on your claim like Hindraf accuses the Malaysian government of conducting etnic cleansing in the same league with that Serbians did to Bosnians. Where did you take this statement from. This is why you need to reference from where you took that statement. Without references, you are also acting like our &#8216;pendekar&#8217; politicians who say things without thinking and without referencing.<br />
I&#8217;m not against Malays becoming rich. But can the Malays become rich by competing with other races with merit and hard work? </p>
<p>If the Malays can enter local Universities by competing with other races, then it&#8217;s okay for Malays to become rich.</p>
<p>If the Malays &#8216;birth rights&#8217; are taken away by abolishing the NEP and allow other races to compete in the economy equally, then it&#8217;s okay for Malays to become rich.</p>
<p>If the government contracts are open to all races by means of competition and allowing all business owners ( of all races) to bid for the tenders, then it&#8217;s okay for Malays to become rich.</p>
<p>When the three important aspects above are still practiced by the Government to help the Malays, why on earth should I be happy with Malays becoming rich? Shamshul, perhaps you are enjoying the privileges given to Malays in Malaysia. Put yourself in the life of an Indian or Chinese who have been discriminated by not getting a place in the local university, unable to compete fairly in business, and many other ways the other races are being discriminated. If you are the other race who was discriminated, would you then be angry when you see Malays enjoying all aspects of life when you can&#8217;t even get to educate yourself? When Malays can enter the University with their scrappy results, why is the Government bargaining with non Malay students who obtained all A&#8217;s by not giving them Medical seats? The government and all Malays who are enjoying these priveleges at the expense of other races suffering is truly a pathethic situation. </p>
<p>Finally, I wonder why Malays pray 5 times a day, when in reality, they don&#8217;t live up to God&#8217;s expectation. Does God allow people to take away anothers rice bowl, anothers rights to be educated? I wonder how so many Malays sleep peacefully and with conscious at night. By saying all these, I&#8217;m not saying that you belong to that category. All I can say to you is , &#8216;Tepuk Dada, tanyalah selera&#8217;.</p>
<p>God bless Malaysia.</p>
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		<title>By: shamshul anuar</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-66490</link>
		<dc:creator>shamshul anuar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-66490</guid>
		<description>Dear Undergrad2. 

 I refer to your response to Mr Anbar. You wrote " Perhaps he should be .....". Exactly that is my point. Why on earth Hindraf claimed on etnic cleansing?.  And why accused Govt( meaning UMNO led) of sanctioning killing of Indians?

Why Hindraf lied? Why ? Call a spade a spade they say. Exactly Hindraf accused Malaysian Govt of conducting etnic cleansing in the same league with that Serbians did to Bosnians.

Nobody is denying Uthaya's right in promoting the interests f Indians. But why must he lie?. Are you saying it is OK to spread lies on Malays in order to promote the interests of Indians?. Why must malays, UMNO, Islam be insulted in the process.

Are you saying it is OK Hindraf to lie in order to draw attention to its flight. What is the point of holding potrait of Mahatma Gandhi but not following his teaching. So nice of you , Anba to absolve Hindraf on its "fitnah" by creating another definition of "etnic cleansing ala Malaysia".

What about Malays. Do not they have the right not to be accused of etnic cleansing. Does a race that choose to allow Indian politicians to win in Malay majority areas practises etnic cleansing?

Who is playing with racial issue actually?. Who is so creative in ridiculing Moslem women wearing tudung with a "rap" on "Negarakuku".  Who is actually feeding fear on Chinese Community on Sekolah Wawasan as a "ploy" to eliminate vernacular schools. 

Who is feeding hatred by not telling the truth that the said demolished temple actually sat on a private land? Who is actually playing with racial issue by keeping to remind Chinese community on a closure of a Chinese school in Damansara( actually relocated not closed). 

Who is actually tend to close private sectors to non Chinese by insisting on Mandarin requirement. Who is actually crying out loud about "ketuanan Melayu" but keeping quiet on "Ketuanan Cina" in economy. 

And Mr Anba, what is wrong on Malays becoming rich. Malays also use their brain in order to succeed in life. Perhaps you are not aware of Muslim billionaires building schools in kedah, Melaka.    Is that is the way you reason, I can also crying out loud to accuse rich Indians of not helping poor Indians.

Greed is a universal plague. No race is immune to it. And do read my remarks carefully. I did not accuse Chinese and Indians of playing with racial issue. Similarly, if you do not like Hishamuddin, please do not lump all Malays as "spineless".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Undergrad2. </p>
<p> I refer to your response to Mr Anbar. You wrote &#8221; Perhaps he should be &#8230;..&#8221;. Exactly that is my point. Why on earth Hindraf claimed on etnic cleansing?.  And why accused Govt( meaning UMNO led) of sanctioning killing of Indians?</p>
<p>Why Hindraf lied? Why ? Call a spade a spade they say. Exactly Hindraf accused Malaysian Govt of conducting etnic cleansing in the same league with that Serbians did to Bosnians.</p>
<p>Nobody is denying Uthaya&#8217;s right in promoting the interests f Indians. But why must he lie?. Are you saying it is OK to spread lies on Malays in order to promote the interests of Indians?. Why must malays, UMNO, Islam be insulted in the process.</p>
<p>Are you saying it is OK Hindraf to lie in order to draw attention to its flight. What is the point of holding potrait of Mahatma Gandhi but not following his teaching. So nice of you , Anba to absolve Hindraf on its &#8220;fitnah&#8221; by creating another definition of &#8220;etnic cleansing ala Malaysia&#8221;.</p>
<p>What about Malays. Do not they have the right not to be accused of etnic cleansing. Does a race that choose to allow Indian politicians to win in Malay majority areas practises etnic cleansing?</p>
<p>Who is playing with racial issue actually?. Who is so creative in ridiculing Moslem women wearing tudung with a &#8220;rap&#8221; on &#8220;Negarakuku&#8221;.  Who is actually feeding fear on Chinese Community on Sekolah Wawasan as a &#8220;ploy&#8221; to eliminate vernacular schools. </p>
<p>Who is feeding hatred by not telling the truth that the said demolished temple actually sat on a private land? Who is actually playing with racial issue by keeping to remind Chinese community on a closure of a Chinese school in Damansara( actually relocated not closed). </p>
<p>Who is actually tend to close private sectors to non Chinese by insisting on Mandarin requirement. Who is actually crying out loud about &#8220;ketuanan Melayu&#8221; but keeping quiet on &#8220;Ketuanan Cina&#8221; in economy. </p>
<p>And Mr Anba, what is wrong on Malays becoming rich. Malays also use their brain in order to succeed in life. Perhaps you are not aware of Muslim billionaires building schools in kedah, Melaka.    Is that is the way you reason, I can also crying out loud to accuse rich Indians of not helping poor Indians.</p>
<p>Greed is a universal plague. No race is immune to it. And do read my remarks carefully. I did not accuse Chinese and Indians of playing with racial issue. Similarly, if you do not like Hishamuddin, please do not lump all Malays as &#8220;spineless&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65934</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 01:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65934</guid>
		<description>Oil and water simply don't mix! Ask the govt how they can sustain what was written in the Rukunegara - "membina masyarakat yang adil" while maintaining "special rights for bumiputras" and "ketuanan Melayu"? This is as good as slapping their own faces! Can equality be achieved when these are enforced?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oil and water simply don&#8217;t mix! Ask the govt how they can sustain what was written in the Rukunegara - &#8220;membina masyarakat yang adil&#8221; while maintaining &#8220;special rights for bumiputras&#8221; and &#8220;ketuanan Melayu&#8221;? This is as good as slapping their own faces! Can equality be achieved when these are enforced?</p>
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		<title>By: undergrad2</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65643</link>
		<dc:creator>undergrad2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65643</guid>
		<description>Anbar, 

It is obvious that Shamshul's verbal skills are not anywhere near the best in this blog when he said:

"....everybody knows Hindraf lied about etnic cleansing." Shamshul Anuar

Perhaps he should have said it a different way, more selective in the choice of words and more sensitive to those who feel passionately about the issues - like yourself.

Uthayar's intention is obvious and something he admitted i.e. to draw world attention to a problem long suffered by his community who has been economically marginalized. There can be no dispute to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anbar, </p>
<p>It is obvious that Shamshul&#8217;s verbal skills are not anywhere near the best in this blog when he said:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;.everybody knows Hindraf lied about etnic cleansing.&#8221; Shamshul Anuar</p>
<p>Perhaps he should have said it a different way, more selective in the choice of words and more sensitive to those who feel passionately about the issues - like yourself.</p>
<p>Uthayar&#8217;s intention is obvious and something he admitted i.e. to draw world attention to a problem long suffered by his community who has been economically marginalized. There can be no dispute to that.</p>
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		<title>By: SIMPLYJUSTICE</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65571</link>
		<dc:creator>SIMPLYJUSTICE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65571</guid>
		<description>As usual  s/v is looking for the credits on the hard work done by Hindraf. Everyone knew that he is a shameless  person, leave alone his family!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual  s/v is looking for the credits on the hard work done by Hindraf. Everyone knew that he is a shameless  person, leave alone his family!</p>
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		<title>By: Anba</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65450</link>
		<dc:creator>Anba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65450</guid>
		<description>Dear Shamshul Anuar,
You mentioned " one manâ€™s slip of tongue must not be interpreted as the general practise of a race, community." First of all, if a slip of tongue comes from an official of a country, and if others in the country don't come forward to say it's wrong or it needs to be researched better, then that slip of tongue appears to be the general practice of the race or community. When the Malay father answered the son "China sudah mampus" upon seeing the funeral procession, then it is imprinted in the son's mind of looking at chinese in a derogatory manner. The son is going to grow up being a racist the same way his father was. Don't give me the crap by saying it's a slip of tongue. The Malay father in this case was being a racist. Period.

On your allegation that Hindraf's claim of ethnic cleansing is a lie. First, it was Uthaya who mentioned about this, but now you are claiming that Hindraf mentioned it. If Uthaya's words can be concluded to be Hindfar's claim, then can a Malay father's racist remark be considered the remarks that comes from Muslims in general. Do you understand my analogy?

There are many definitions for ethnic cleansing. Uthaya had used the narrower definition of systematically, illegally involving gross human right abuses.( see definition below)
Here is a possible definition of ethnic cleansing, according to Drazen Petrovic, as appeared in Wikipedia :
Drazen Petrovic has distinguished between broad and narrow definitions. Broader definitions focus on the fact of expulsion based on ethnic criteria, while narrower definitions include additional criteria: for example, that expulsions are systematic, illegal, involve gross human-rights abuses, or are connected with an ongoing internal or international war. According to Petrovic:

    [E]thnic cleansing is a well-defined policy of a particular group of persons to systematically eliminate another group from a given territory on the basis of religious, ethnic or national origin. Such a policy involves violence and is very often connected with military operations. It is to be achieved by all possible means, from discrimination to extermination, and entails violations of human rights and international humanitarian law."[3] 
Reference [3] :  "Ethnic Cleansing - An Attempt at Methodology" p.11.
Nevertheless, Uthaya mentioned that the ethnic cleansing is an ethnic cleansing ala Malaysia. That means an ethnic cleansing a unique Malaysian style.
You mentioned "poverty cuts across racial boundary". Well you are right, and whats true is also that the Malays have all the avenue to get help when they need it. If a Malay is still poor in Malaysia today, it simply means that the richer Malays are not willing to redistribute their wealth to poorer Malays. Thanks to Dr.Mahathir and shame to the rich Malays who simply became greedy upon accumulating wealth. 

You mentioned that the Malay's preoccupation as :" The preoccupation of Malays right now is how dangerous a situation when people play with racial issue, hiding under mantra â€œfreedom expression". Who is playing with racial issue, and which race is hiding under the mantra "freedom expression"? If you are saying that other races ( other than Malay race) are hiding under the mantra "freedom expression", you are  spineless  like Hishamuddin. Do you know that the Malay race is hiding under the 'NEP' umbrella and hope to be spoon fed throughout generation after generation. Well, this preference given to the Bumiputera's must be stopped. Everyone born in a land is actually a "Bumi Purtan" a tamil phrase that means the "prince of the soil".
Please do a little research before writing, don't be like the other Malay politicians who are showing to the world that they are incompetent in running the country. Wake up to reality.

If you're a competent Malay ( I'm not sure if you're a Malay or not), then please reply to this message. 
God bless Malaysia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Shamshul Anuar,<br />
You mentioned &#8221; one manâ€™s slip of tongue must not be interpreted as the general practise of a race, community.&#8221; First of all, if a slip of tongue comes from an official of a country, and if others in the country don&#8217;t come forward to say it&#8217;s wrong or it needs to be researched better, then that slip of tongue appears to be the general practice of the race or community. When the Malay father answered the son &#8220;China sudah mampus&#8221; upon seeing the funeral procession, then it is imprinted in the son&#8217;s mind of looking at chinese in a derogatory manner. The son is going to grow up being a racist the same way his father was. Don&#8217;t give me the crap by saying it&#8217;s a slip of tongue. The Malay father in this case was being a racist. Period.</p>
<p>On your allegation that Hindraf&#8217;s claim of ethnic cleansing is a lie. First, it was Uthaya who mentioned about this, but now you are claiming that Hindraf mentioned it. If Uthaya&#8217;s words can be concluded to be Hindfar&#8217;s claim, then can a Malay father&#8217;s racist remark be considered the remarks that comes from Muslims in general. Do you understand my analogy?</p>
<p>There are many definitions for ethnic cleansing. Uthaya had used the narrower definition of systematically, illegally involving gross human right abuses.( see definition below)<br />
Here is a possible definition of ethnic cleansing, according to Drazen Petrovic, as appeared in Wikipedia :<br />
Drazen Petrovic has distinguished between broad and narrow definitions. Broader definitions focus on the fact of expulsion based on ethnic criteria, while narrower definitions include additional criteria: for example, that expulsions are systematic, illegal, involve gross human-rights abuses, or are connected with an ongoing internal or international war. According to Petrovic:</p>
<p>    [E]thnic cleansing is a well-defined policy of a particular group of persons to systematically eliminate another group from a given territory on the basis of religious, ethnic or national origin. Such a policy involves violence and is very often connected with military operations. It is to be achieved by all possible means, from discrimination to extermination, and entails violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.&#8221;[3]<br />
Reference [3] :  &#8220;Ethnic Cleansing - An Attempt at Methodology&#8221; p.11.<br />
Nevertheless, Uthaya mentioned that the ethnic cleansing is an ethnic cleansing ala Malaysia. That means an ethnic cleansing a unique Malaysian style.<br />
You mentioned &#8220;poverty cuts across racial boundary&#8221;. Well you are right, and whats true is also that the Malays have all the avenue to get help when they need it. If a Malay is still poor in Malaysia today, it simply means that the richer Malays are not willing to redistribute their wealth to poorer Malays. Thanks to Dr.Mahathir and shame to the rich Malays who simply became greedy upon accumulating wealth. </p>
<p>You mentioned that the Malay&#8217;s preoccupation as :&#8221; The preoccupation of Malays right now is how dangerous a situation when people play with racial issue, hiding under mantra â€œfreedom expression&#8221;. Who is playing with racial issue, and which race is hiding under the mantra &#8220;freedom expression&#8221;? If you are saying that other races ( other than Malay race) are hiding under the mantra &#8220;freedom expression&#8221;, you are  spineless  like Hishamuddin. Do you know that the Malay race is hiding under the &#8216;NEP&#8217; umbrella and hope to be spoon fed throughout generation after generation. Well, this preference given to the Bumiputera&#8217;s must be stopped. Everyone born in a land is actually a &#8220;Bumi Purtan&#8221; a tamil phrase that means the &#8220;prince of the soil&#8221;.<br />
Please do a little research before writing, don&#8217;t be like the other Malay politicians who are showing to the world that they are incompetent in running the country. Wake up to reality.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re a competent Malay ( I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;re a Malay or not), then please reply to this message.<br />
God bless Malaysia.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65422</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65422</guid>
		<description>ooops should read 'work less for more'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ooops should read &#8216;work less for more&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65420</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65420</guid>
		<description>"I beg your pardon?" dawsheng


That's a good one, dawsheng. Have a happy new year! Oh, we're not there yet? It is still Christmas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I beg your pardon?&#8221; dawsheng</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good one, dawsheng. Have a happy new year! Oh, we&#8217;re not there yet? It is still Christmas?</p>
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		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65419</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/24/malaysian-indian-political-awakening-must-not-fall-into-trap-of-being-tarred-anti-malay/#comment-65419</guid>
		<description>"Because the Bangladeshi car washer is better than Indian car washer?" dawshen

No. It is because the Bangadeshi car washer does more of the washing and the Indian car washer works more for less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Because the Bangladeshi car washer is better than Indian car washer?&#8221; dawshen</p>
<p>No. It is because the Bangadeshi car washer does more of the washing and the Indian car washer works more for less.</p>
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