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	<title>Comments on: Legal challenge to declare court order which barred  Bersih activists and public from Monday Parliament null and void</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/</link>
	<description>for Malaysia</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63384</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63384</guid>
		<description>Aren't those arrested "rakyat" too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t those arrested &#8220;rakyat&#8221; too?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DarkHorse</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63107</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkHorse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63107</guid>
		<description>"They donâ€™t have enough evidence to charge them in court, that is why they use ISAâ€¦" justice6


duhhhhhh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They donâ€™t have enough evidence to charge them in court, that is why they use ISAâ€¦&#8221; justice6</p>
<p>duhhhhhh!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: justice6</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63093</link>
		<dc:creator>justice6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63093</guid>
		<description>keselamatan rakyat adalah utama...tanpa rakyat, mana ada negara... ini pm pun tak faham, ..tiew... 

they don't have enough evidence to charge them in court, that is why they use isa... simple.. those rapist and child killer can get fair trial...but if you go againts them.. isa pulak... you mean to say those rapist n murderer are not a treat to public????????tiew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>keselamatan rakyat adalah utama&#8230;tanpa rakyat, mana ada negara&#8230; ini pm pun tak faham, ..tiew&#8230; </p>
<p>they don&#8217;t have enough evidence to charge them in court, that is why they use isa&#8230; simple.. those rapist and child killer can get fair trial&#8230;but if you go againts them.. isa pulak&#8230; you mean to say those rapist n murderer are not a treat to public????????tiew</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: justice6</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63084</link>
		<dc:creator>justice6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63084</guid>
		<description>in a kanguroo court? ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in a kanguroo court? ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63023</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-63023</guid>
		<description>Why is there no "Made in Malaysia Guy Fawkes?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is there no &#8220;Made in Malaysia Guy Fawkes?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jong</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62932</link>
		<dc:creator>Jong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62932</guid>
		<description>They blocked him because he was a "security threat" to the BN MPs inside Parliament, may even attempt a murder ! It was to harrass, to intimidate and instill fear that's all. They have no solid grounds, real pok-kai!

I'm back on homeground where the action is, will exercise my citizen's right to vote, one for the Opposition!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They blocked him because he was a &#8220;security threat&#8221; to the BN MPs inside Parliament, may even attempt a murder ! It was to harrass, to intimidate and instill fear that&#8217;s all. They have no solid grounds, real pok-kai!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m back on homeground where the action is, will exercise my citizen&#8217;s right to vote, one for the Opposition!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: undergrad2</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62931</link>
		<dc:creator>undergrad2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62931</guid>
		<description>So you and I are fully awake. Good to be in  different time zones! Either that or you're having sleepless nights in Seattle.

The Order albeit obtained ex parte - if valid - covers those within the compound of Parliament  Building including those in Parliament building itself. Wonder why they bothered to block him from entering!

Order valid or otherwise has served its purpose. Apparently the purpose was to detain them for a few hours perhaps with a warning of more to come! A taste of what is coming unless they behave?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you and I are fully awake. Good to be in  different time zones! Either that or you&#8217;re having sleepless nights in Seattle.</p>
<p>The Order albeit obtained ex parte - if valid - covers those within the compound of Parliament  Building including those in Parliament building itself. Wonder why they bothered to block him from entering!</p>
<p>Order valid or otherwise has served its purpose. Apparently the purpose was to detain them for a few hours perhaps with a warning of more to come! A taste of what is coming unless they behave?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jong</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62925</link>
		<dc:creator>Jong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62925</guid>
		<description>Undergrad2,

Yep Mustafa Ali is a former MP(Trengganu) and past VP of PAS. Your guess is as good as mine, we know why he was there and I'm sure the Police knew that too. Anyone who is not in the BN is 'suspect' on that day but that's not the issue. The issue is they(Police) dragged him away when he was within the confines of Parliament building. Obviously he had earlier cleverly given security a slip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Undergrad2,</p>
<p>Yep Mustafa Ali is a former MP(Trengganu) and past VP of PAS. Your guess is as good as mine, we know why he was there and I&#8217;m sure the Police knew that too. Anyone who is not in the BN is &#8217;suspect&#8217; on that day but that&#8217;s not the issue. The issue is they(Police) dragged him away when he was within the confines of Parliament building. Obviously he had earlier cleverly given security a slip.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: undergrad2</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62922</link>
		<dc:creator>undergrad2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/12/13/legal-challenge-to-declare-court-order-which-barred-bersih-activists-and-public-from-monday-parliament-null-and-void/#comment-62922</guid>
		<description>.
Limkamput,



Yes, you're right!  Nobody has said anything to contradict you. So why are you having an argument with yourself?



The way to change a government in a country that claims to be democratic is through the electoral process. But when the electoral process is weighed heavily against the interest of the electorate, then as free citizens who go to the polls every five years to elect which party is to run the next government,  we have no choice but to take it to the streets.  Why should free citizens looking for equality and justice not take to the streets just because there is a law requiring a police permit and which permit is more often refused than granted?



When the media is controlled by a political party in power, when government apparatus including the police, is being used as an organ of the political party running it, and the country is being ruled by a political party that has long lost its political legitimacy to rule, then the continued dependence on the government to provide support for â€˜changeâ€™ does not make sense.



It is common knowledge that the Electoral Commission (EC) has been guilty of showing partisan support when it allowed electoral constituencies to be drawn dividing the electorate along racial lines, artificially splitting communities and in many instances in such a way as to allow one race to dominate. This is nothing new. It has been happening for decades since the time of the Tunku. The civil service has long lost its neutrality since. We must work to pressure the government to regain its lost civil service neutrality. It goes way beyond the issue of the drawing and re-drawing of electoral constituencies to suit the changing demographics.



You refer to issues of transparency, accountability and good governance and the matter of checks and balances all of which are prerequisites to a functioning democracy. Arenâ€™t these just different aspects of a democratic government? 




The institutions you refer to are supported and protected by laws.

 

We have laws requiring that elections be held in a fair and transparent manner. Parliament, for example, has passed the Election Act which governs how elections are to be run. The Act defines what acts constitute electoral offenses and the purpose is to punish offenders and to declare electoral victories void if there is evidence of such offenses having been committed and then to hold fresh elections. 



High court judges  have been pro-UMNO and Zaki would win all his cases. But this merely points to a judiciary which has lost its independence â€“ and not for the need to do away with the law since according you it is the â€œlaw as interpreted by UMNO.â€ The fact that we have been facing endemic corruption in the countryâ€™s civil service for years cannot be made a basis for an argument for doing away with the Prevention of Corruption Act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.<br />
Limkamput,</p>
<p>Yes, you&#8217;re right!  Nobody has said anything to contradict you. So why are you having an argument with yourself?</p>
<p>The way to change a government in a country that claims to be democratic is through the electoral process. But when the electoral process is weighed heavily against the interest of the electorate, then as free citizens who go to the polls every five years to elect which party is to run the next government,  we have no choice but to take it to the streets.  Why should free citizens looking for equality and justice not take to the streets just because there is a law requiring a police permit and which permit is more often refused than granted?</p>
<p>When the media is controlled by a political party in power, when government apparatus including the police, is being used as an organ of the political party running it, and the country is being ruled by a political party that has long lost its political legitimacy to rule, then the continued dependence on the government to provide support for â€˜changeâ€™ does not make sense.</p>
<p>It is common knowledge that the Electoral Commission (EC) has been guilty of showing partisan support when it allowed electoral constituencies to be drawn dividing the electorate along racial lines, artificially splitting communities and in many instances in such a way as to allow one race to dominate. This is nothing new. It has been happening for decades since the time of the Tunku. The civil service has long lost its neutrality since. We must work to pressure the government to regain its lost civil service neutrality. It goes way beyond the issue of the drawing and re-drawing of electoral constituencies to suit the changing demographics.</p>
<p>You refer to issues of transparency, accountability and good governance and the matter of checks and balances all of which are prerequisites to a functioning democracy. Arenâ€™t these just different aspects of a democratic government? </p>
<p>The institutions you refer to are supported and protected by laws.</p>
<p>We have laws requiring that elections be held in a fair and transparent manner. Parliament, for example, has passed the Election Act which governs how elections are to be run. The Act defines what acts constitute electoral offenses and the purpose is to punish offenders and to declare electoral victories void if there is evidence of such offenses having been committed and then to hold fresh elections. </p>
<p>High court judges  have been pro-UMNO and Zaki would win all his cases. But this merely points to a judiciary which has lost its independence â€“ and not for the need to do away with the law since according you it is the â€œlaw as interpreted by UMNO.â€ The fact that we have been facing endemic corruption in the countryâ€™s civil service for years cannot be made a basis for an argument for doing away with the Prevention of Corruption Act.</p>
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