How many mission schools in the country have the cross removed from school emblem?


Although the Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar said in Parliament yesterday that the Ministry will not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools, I have received complaints on my blog of mission schools where the cross had been replaced in the school emblems, such as:

  • St. David High School, Bukit Baru, Melaka, the cross had been replaced by a crown.

  • Convent Girls School in Muar, Cross was replaced with a cresent moon on badge.
  • Methodist Boys Secondary School, Kuala Lumpur

I call on the Education Minister, Datuk Hishammuddin Hussein to explain whether it is true that the cross in the school emblems in these schools have been removed and replaced.

In this connection, I call on Hishammuddin to give a statement to explain how many missions schools in the country have the cross in the school emblem replaced, together with a full list of the schools concerned and the relevant particulars on year of removal and why.

Hishammuddin should also explain whether the Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed.

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  1. #1 by kurakura on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:10 pm

    My school Anglo Chinese School Ipoh had its cross removed from the school emblem around 10 – 12 years ago.

    What are the overzealous people trying to so? I am in Singapore now. Stamford Raffles statues are still in the center of the central business district, colonial founded schools still have statues of their founders and of course crosses, roads still have historical names and yet the country is progressing on all fronts.

    Wake up and rectify the right things that matter.

  2. #2 by boh-liao on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:31 pm

    Next, all bakeries, beware, no hot cross buns. Hot crescent buns, yes.
    No ‘Cross My Heart’ song, novel, etc. – Have to change to ‘Crescent My Heart’.
    Santa Claus must dress in green, not red.

    AAB told TIME recently, “We are not a secular state, but neither are we a theocracy.” Ho, ho, ho ……….

  3. #3 by max2811 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:32 pm

    The cross in the ACS Ipoh’s badge was removed in 1974. It started with the exercise books and then the school badge. I remembered we used to draw back the cross onto the badge. We were too young to know why. But then, whether there is a cross or not is not important. What is important is in our hearts.
    ‘Not so very long ago….
    ………..And we are proud we are students of the ACS!

  4. #4 by Jimm on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:36 pm

    We all knew that UMNO is behind all these the moment they can get royal consent and have successfully planted the Ketuanan fears into the Malays.
    This scandal changes history by itself and re-make their own people to be seen as national heroes as big as they can picture it.
    Of course, over years .. everything had firmed embedded into most Malaysian mind about the national heroes.
    Now, moving in making everything as perfect as the story goes, they have been trying ways to ‘take out’ or ‘throw away’ signs or form of structural that does not give them advantage.
    To them, it’s history and history don’t pay them enough to be rich but endangered their plots.
    At the current wealth sharing concept eversince TDM tenure, not a single one in that system will dare to complaint or object as that will means their financial incoming channel will be stopped.
    Get the picture.

  5. #5 by tuanlokong on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:39 pm

    I do not see the logic, but maybe it was installed over the actual school emblem. Do not happen in our place though.

  6. #6 by sotong on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:41 pm

    Many thought PAS is extreme.

    Islamic extremism and fundamentalism are doing enormous damage to a multi religious country.

  7. #7 by messy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:46 pm

    thank you YB Lim for fighting for my school’s right…this have ben going on for many years at last our cries have been heard…

    but to tell you the truth they’ll never pick up your call our even answer your questions because they’re too ashamed to even answer the public themselves….

    anyway i can say Malaysia is proud to have a MP like you!…keep up the good work

  8. #8 by lakshy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:00 pm

    There is a large hindu temple in Bandar Chukai, Kemaman, Terengganu which for many years was on TOL land. For many years the temple was trying to get the title for the land which it was occupying. Never worked.

    When PAS took over Terengganu, in teh previous elections, when the temple committee wrote to teh MP and the state Govt, the government gave the temple the title. Now you tell me who is more tolerant? PAS or UMNO?

  9. #9 by greatstuff on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:22 pm

    Well LKS, you have real guts to speak out against unfair practises, and I wish that others would have the courage of their convictions, instead of being the “limbeh” fellows they really are! Keep hammering away at the morons who are responsible for putting the nation backwards. It will be greatly interesting for all to see if Kerismuddin’s Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed.

  10. #10 by Libra2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:26 pm

    Kit,
    This started decades ago and the exercise is almost complete. Now what we need to do is replace those crosses back on the building. After all the schools belong to the Mission.

  11. #11 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:54 pm

    Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar said in Parliament yesterday that the Ministry would not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools.

    What is now right (ie removal) today would be not right too in the past.

    What was not right in the past would justify rectification and remedy, which is re-instatement of crosses in the past so directed to be removed and were removed.

    Is there any other way to look at it?

  12. #12 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:01 pm

    “….What is NOT (not “now”) right (ie removal) today would not be right in the past…”

  13. #13 by Jonny on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:11 pm

    The matter of fact is, as a Chinese, I always tell my Chinese friends – the biggest Buddha statue is in Kelantan. (And I’m not even a Buddhist. I’m a Christian).

    And look, who is more tolerant? The devil has finally reared its head.

    The govt controlled media always devilized any stupid or silly remarks made by the PAS and made it look big-deal. But fact of the matter is, PAS is more tolerant than UMNO/BN.

    So, definitely my vote is for PAS if given the choice of UMNO vs PAS.

  14. #14 by ihavesomethingtosay on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:19 pm

    First it’d be the schools, then follow by the Shop house churches, thirdly demolition of all old churches altogether.

    step by step.

    just like the talibans.

    Bamiyan Buddha has been standing there along the silk road for over 4,000 years, guarding the route like a gentle giant. all it took was some C4 and tanks to blow these two benovalent statue from the face of the earth forever.

    Extremisim must not be allowed into this country.

    the sad thing is.

    The churches will take these uncivilized issues as a test for faith.

    They will do nothing.

  15. #15 by mendela on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:52 pm

    How many new churches are build in the past 10 years?

    Yes, we can see some of the new churches been build, but build on shoplots or on private houses!

    Religions are meant only good. Why this stupid Gomen is so scare about other faiths?
    Why it needs to be so intolerant on other religions?

    Why new churches cannot be build in a more respectable manners?

  16. #16 by midnitelily on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:14 pm

    My alma mater, Assunta Secondary School in PJ had the tiny cross in the school emblem. That was removed sometime in the 90s. We used to have the emblem on our exercise books as well, but of course, everything had to be reprinted without the cross.

    I think the school was also told to remove all the crucifixes and anything related to the religion (i.e. statues, etc) before I was there.

  17. #17 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:23 pm

    Remember how Red Cross became Red Crescent? The Red Cross was actually the opposite of the Swiss National flag, the country which gave birth to this organisation.

    Some months ago, a friend e-mailed this article to me and asked me how my community felt. How do you feel?

    http://www.catholicasiannews.com/07aug/aug07cover2.htm

    50 YEARS OF ISLAMISATION

    Compiled by Aneel David Kannabhiran

    1957: The Reid Commission drafted the Federal Constitution, and at the behest of one of the Commission members, Mr. Justice Abdul Hamid of West Pakistan High Court, Article 3 (1) was formulated as such: “Islam is the religion of the Federation …”

    1966: Restrictions were placed on the employment, entry and residence of priests and religious personnel. This led to the reduction of religious personnel in mission schools.

    1974: The Red Cross Society was re-named Red Crescent Society.

    1974 to present: The airing of Islamic television and radio programmes began increasing. From 1974 onwards, prime time television programmes were paused to air the Azans [Muslim prayer]. In 1982 Islamic content on TV stood at 10 per cent; in 1988 it rose to 17.5 per cent.

    In 2007, new station TV9 was launched, which features mainly Islamic programming. There is no coverage of non-Muslim religious programmes, save for during the respective festivals.

    Songs that contain the word ‘Jesus’ have been banned [eg: “Jesus to a Child” by George Michael], as well as movies depicting prophets [eg: “Prince of Egypt”, a film about the life of Moses].

    1979: The Islamic Revolution and revivalism in Iran had a direct effect on Muslims here. Muslim clerics began exhorting their faithful to return to the fundamentals of the faith. The Angkatan Budaya Islam Malaysia [Malaysian Islamic Cultural Force] (ABIM) led by Anwar Ibrahim started the dakwah [the call] movement mainly among government college and university students.

    Muslim women, for the first time, were seen donning the tudung [head covering]. Over the years, wearing of the tudung has become the norm amongst Muslim women.

    1981: The Indonesian translation of the Bible – “Alkitab” was banned under the Internal Security Act. The ban was later lifted on condition the books were restricted to Christian use.

    In 2000, the Bahasa Malaysia translation of “Alkitab” was confiscated by the Special Branch from the Daughters of St. Paul bookstore in Petaling Jaya. The then Deputy PM Abdullah Badawi later released the books on condition that the words “for Christians only” were printed on the cover.

    1984: It became illegal for non-Muslims to use 49 ‘Islamic’ words including Allah [God], Alhamdulilah [Praise be to God] and Insya Allah [God willing].

    1985: The then Deputy Prime Minister [PM] Datuk Musa Hitam said, “The government has set up a committee to co-ordinate the various aspects of Islamic Syariah and civil laws in line with efforts to infuse Islamic values into the Administration.” [New Straits Times (NST) 9 March ‘85]

    Aug 1986: ABIM proposes to government that, “Islamic laws be the basis of legislation in Malaysia.” [NST 25 Aug ‘86]

    Sep 1986: The Federal and State governments agreed to the integration of Syariah and Civil Courts. The then Lord President Tun Salleh Abas said this integration was a first step toward the Islamisation of laws in the country. He also said that changes should not be made drastically … the best changes are those which are imperceptible. [The Star 25 Sep ‘86]

    The above situation led to a written protest by the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism [MCCBCHS], and a nationwide church and temple signature campaign denouncing the plans.

    1988: The then Minister of Education Anwar Ibrahim, directed all Principals, aged fifty-five and above who were religious, to stop service with immediate effect. The Principals who took over were mostly Muslim.

    Subsequently,

    Moral Education replaced Christian religious education in these schools. The majority of Moral Education teachers were Muslim.
    Crucifixes in mission schools were removed.
    School history textbooks glorified Islam and Islamic civilisation over other religions.
    “Islamic Civilisation” was introduced as a compulsory subject for all university students.

    1988: Article 121 of the Federal Constitution was amended by Art. 121 (1A), to state that, the Civil Courts “shall have no jurisdiction in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the Syariah Courts.”

    The result of this amendment led to the Civil Courts being unable to adjudicate in cases where the Islamic ingredient is present notwithstanding the fact the person seeking judicial relief or remedy is a non-Muslim, especially in matters related to conversion, matrimony, children’s custody and burial.

    Over the years, case law has shown:

    a person who converts to Islam can get his/her civil marriage dissolved by the Syariah court, automatically gains custody of children and is allowed to convert them without the non-Muslim parent’s consent [Subashini v Saravanan].
    a person who converts out of Islam cannot change religious status on his/her Identity Card without permission from the Syariah Court [Lina Joy case].

    a person who applies to the Syariah Court to convert away from Islam is forced into rehabilitative detention [Revathi Masoosai case ].

    State Islamic authorities are given power by the Syariah Courts to claim, exhume and bury deceased persons who they deem as Muslims, regardless of the insistence of family members to the contrary [Moorthy Marian and Rayappan Anthony cases].

    1980s: In line with Article 11 (4) of the Federal Constitution: “State and federal law may restrict the propagation of any other religious doctrine among Muslims”, the Control and Restriction of the Propagation of Non-Islamic Religions Enactment was passed in six states. The penalties for such violations are a maximum RM10,000 fine or one year’s jail, or both.

    Five persons including a former Muslim were detained without trial under the ISA for allegedly performing missionary work amongst Muslims.

    During the 80s the print media attempted to portray that Christian evangelism was a threat to the Muslim faith. As an example, on 9 Oct ’87, the NST reported that, “Christians attempted to convert Muslims with bribe money”. On 5 Oct ’87 Mingguan Islam alleged that US$100bil was provided by the “World Federation of Churches” for the Christianisation of Muslims. The Malaysian Consultative Council on Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism [MCCBCHS] asserted that both these stories were false. Furthermore, there is no such body as the “World Federation of Churches”.

    1980s to present: Approvals for building of non-Muslim places of worship became increasingly difficult. Unusual conditions were imposed – height restrictions on steeples, design restrictions temple domes – Sikh gurdwaras are barred from building their traditional domes for fear that it may cause confusion for looking too mosque-like.

    The Church of the Divine Mercy in Shah Alam took no less than 28 years to be approved and built due to vexatious bureaucratic delays and protests from residents.

    To date, over 10 Hindu temples have been demolished by local councils on grounds that the structures were illegal.

    1980s to present: Muslims by virtue of paying their tithes [zakat] are allowed a tax rebate of the amount tithed. This has resulted in Muslims having a lower effective tax rate, while non-Muslims with the same level of income are taxed a higher percentage.

    1993: Banks and finance companies were allowed to offer Islamic banking services.

    1993: Kelantan State Legislative Assembly, which is under the control of opposition Parti Islam SeMalaysia [PAS], passed the Syariah Criminal Code [II] Bill, which included Hudud laws that call for stoning to death and chopping of limbs – these laws could be applied to those from any religion. [As the Federal Government does not recognise these laws, to date, they have not yet been enforced.]

    1999: The ruling Barisan Nasional [BN] party suffered its biggest setback in its history when apart from Kelantan, also lost the state of Terengganu to PAS in the General Elections.

    PAS, with its vision of setting up a Syariah-based Islamic State, replaced the Democratic Action Party [DAP] as the main opposition party in Parliament.

    This led to a race between the BN and PAS to try and ‘out-Islamise’ each other by posturing themselves to appear more ‘Islamic’.

    2001: In an apparent attempt to thwart support for PAS’ plans of an Islamic State should it come into power, the then PM Mahathir Mohamed declared that Malaysia was already a “model Islamic Country”. Despite public outcry from the non-Muslim population, the non-Malay component parties within the ruling coalition were either compliant or silent on the issue.

    2002: The policy “Absorption of Islamic Values” into government administration was launched. According to the booklet, “Malaysia is an Islamic Country”, the “policy will be implemented on a continuous basis until the goal of entrenching Islam into the nation’s system is fully achieved.” The booklet was later withdrawn but the policy is arguably still in force.

    2004: PAS was ousted by the DAP as main opposition party in Parliament when it lost Terengganu to the BN and retained Kelantan by the narrowest of margins in the General Election. The BN, helmed by new PM Abdullah Badawi, experienced its biggest victory to date winning nine tenths of the contested Parliamentary seats.

    Badawi then introduced the new concept of Islam Hadhari [Civilisational Islam].

    2005: Plans to set up an Interfaith Commission, a statutory non-adjudicative body to assist the government in shaping coherent policy pertaining to religious harmony, were scuttled by widespread protests from Muslim activists who alleged the Commission would “interfere with the holiness of Islam”.

    2005: City Hall enforcement officers arrested a non-Muslim couple for hugging and kissing in a public park. The couple appealed to the Federal Court, which ruled that City Hall was correct. The decision has now empowered local council authorities to act as morality police.

    2006: An elderly American couple on holiday in Langkawi were harassed and humiliated by State religious enforcement officers who raided their apartment on suspicion they were Muslims committing khalwat [close proximity] – an offence under Syariah law.

    2006: A coalition of non-governmental organisations [NGOs] formed “Article 11” [named after the constitutional provision which enshrines freedom of religion], with the intention of reminding the government to defend the Federal Constitution and reaffirm the country’s secular nature. Their nationwide fora were repeatedly disrupted by Islamist activists. The PM stepped in and assuaged the protestors by putting a halt “Article 11’s” activities.

    2006: The Attorney General’s Chambers now has a Syariah unit whose functions, inter alia, are to “take steps toward the realisation of a set of laws and specific body that will be responsible for the harmonisation of civil law and syarak [laws of Islam]”.

    This could be seen as a resumption of the 1985-1988 initiative towards the integration of Syariah and Civil Courts.

    2007: Islamic authorities have been observed to have grown more tyrannical in their enforcement, as evidenced by the recent Revathi Masoosai case where they forcibly took away her child on the grounds that she was a Muslim who illegally practised Hinduism, despite her claim that she had been a practising Hindu since childhood.

    A “Building Bridges” seminar of prominent Muslim and Christian scholars under the auspice of the Archbishop of Canterbury scheduled for 7-11 May 2007 was abruptly postponed by officials of the Prime Minister’s Department. No new date has been yet fixed.

    July 17 2007: Deputy PM Najib Abdul Razak said Malaysia has never been a secular state as the government has always been driven by the fundamentals of Islam, according to state Bernama news agency.

    And so on.

    ….

  18. #18 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:26 pm

    Can we just know how much public funds have been allocated by the government for the building of temples and churches under all the various Malaysia plans? Also land allocated for such purposes, if the government says it actively supports and contributes to all religions?

  19. #19 by verbal-lash on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 6:18 pm

    The Convent School in JB had its cross replaced with a star from the school emblem about 20 over years ago. It is one of those few convent schools that has the statue of Mother Mary gracing its entrance and the Johor Govt had tried to give trouble several times, until the Johor Sultanate put their foot down as the statue was a gift from their forefather, Sultan Ismail.

    One of my ex-room mates is from PAS-ruled Kelantan and she is a teacher in one of the Chinese Schools. The PAS Govt is never hesitant everytime there is a request for additional funds needed for the school. Huge funds are channelled annually to the Chinese schools as well. That is what I call tolerance, even magnanimity. While I was hesitant in previous elections to vote for PAS when it was paired as BN versus PAS in my area, this time I will surely not hesitant to vote for PAS! Anything to cause instability to the BN arrogance!

  20. #20 by madmix on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 6:57 pm

    The BN MP said he has nothing against crucifixes being displayed in mission schools, but that he was merely raising the people’s concern over the matter.

    Why should people be concerned about the matter? are they vampires who would be burned by the sight of the cross? are their faith so little that the mere sight of the crucifix can cause them to convert to Christianity? Others have no qualms or concern about Quaranic verses displayed everywhere or the crescent symbol, or the call to prayer over loud speakers 5 times a day. so why the fuss about a cross?

  21. #21 by borrring on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 6:58 pm

    Islamisation is creeping into our society indeed….sad state

  22. #22 by ahoo on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 8:28 pm

    Do take note as well that all flag poles that was originally designed with ” cross shape ” for state, country and individual have had been replaced with 3 straight pole !

    Well, anything that have a cross-shape design, just cause some people to have untold fears. That just shows their level of faith in their God. Yet they understood and proudly claimed that they are also from the Abramhamic lineage.

    As such, why go against the GOD that Abraham believed or are they simply just lost and confused ? You cannot claimed one thing and behave otherwise.

    For GOD certainly sees the heart and not the daily rituals that we performed. In all that we do, always know that GOD is watching us. What we sow, we shall reap !!!

    All religion teaches us to be faithful and love others with respect and tolerance including Islam. It is just the people (govt) that uses religion for their own end in justifying their deeds.

  23. #23 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 9:12 pm

    “SO WHY THE FUSS ABOUT A SIMPLE STONE CROSS” ?

    It is the message that the cross carries that they fear.

    It is the stone images of Gods that they ‘fear’ – not because they fear stones may turn to flesh and walk among them but God does not have a face. Remember what President Reagan said about the Challenger Seven the first astronauts to die in flight? They died “touching the face of God”.

    God indeed does not have a face. Didn’t He say:

    “I am the LORD your God,….. You shall have no other gods before me.” (Ex. 20:3)

    “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything…. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God….” (Ex. 20:4-6).

    UMNO leaders know of course that the Cross is not God or that God is crossed with them. Why are they then suddenly fixated on stone symbols or icons as if these stone symbols are making their debut for the first time? Should we expect to see UMNO Youth leaders peeking into the blouses of school girls attending missionary schools for religious icons?

    To these politicians may I recommend that you read the works of Jean Jacques Rousseau on the “Social Contract” or principles of political right. Just click here http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm

  24. #24 by mendela on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:04 pm

    The millions of peace loving moderate Muslims in Malaysia MUST say NO to the few hundreds of Muslim fanatics and UMO running dogs!

    Keeping silence is like cancer grows.

  25. #25 by mendela on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:08 pm

    sheriff asked //Can we just know how much public funds have been allocated by the government for the building of temples and churches under all the various Malaysia plans? //

    Kit should ask also how many temples this UMO Gomen had brought down too in the last 20 years!

  26. #26 by smeagroo on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:10 pm

    Maybe we can piss off these Vampires by putting up car stickers with crosses and see how many of these blood suckas will die at the very sight of it.

  27. #27 by bra888 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:11 pm

    I was surfing the net about our Indian friend rights’ being violated and I found something that offends me. (I can’t remember what or where the link was, but whosoever knows can tell me.)

    I learned that many Hindu temples were being demolished. The site claimed that the police used a method to purposely stage chaos during the demonstration to protect the temple and took advantage to upper hand the protesters.

    [deleted]

  28. #28 by cheng on soo on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:36 pm

    Those who think PAS may be more intolerance than UMNO on others religion, cultures etc. Go to visit Kelantan, talk to n interview non Muslim who had lived in Kelantan. Kelantan had 3 big buddha statues. interview non muslim in trengganu, get their opinions on difference between PAS n UMNO govt. dont just believe whatever main stream media said !

  29. #29 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:38 pm

    Is Malaysia moving towards making ‘calling our teddy bear, Mohammad’ a crime??

  30. #30 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:42 pm

    After what happened in Sudan, my favorite song by Elvis is never the same again!

    “Teddy Bear” – the Elvis version

    Baby let me be,
    your lovin’ Teddy Bear
    Put a chain around my neck,
    and lead me anywhere
    Oh let me be
    Your teddy bear.

    I don’t wanna be a tiger
    Cause tigers play too rough
    I don’t wanna be a lion
    ‘Cause lions ain’t the kind
    you love enough.
    Just wanna be, your Teddy Bear
    Put a chain around my neck
    and lead me anywhere
    Oh let me be
    Your teddy bear.

    Baby let me be, around you every night
    Run your fingers through my hair,
    And cuddle me real tight

  31. #31 by penangboy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:29 pm

    YB Lim
    I am glad you continue to press further for the shallowness of many of our MPs have turned out to be. I am a by-product of a Christian Brother School in Penang. I am proud to be a Xavierian and continue to remember how much the school has done for me in terms of character building. I strongly suggest that the BN MPs go back to where they came from and leave the schools alone.

    Labor Omnia Vincit – that is my motto. I hope you will share this motto with the other DAP members. It means Labor Conquers All. Continue to talk about this. Continue to speak louder than anyone else.

    A vote for DAP is a vote against UMNO. I all for DAP

  32. #32 by waterfrontcoolie on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:34 pm

    people who want others to view them as pious are all ARTIFICIAL and RITUALISTIC. If you sincerely trust the CREATOR then you should respect the world that HE had allowed to develope. If HE really wanted mindless people, then HE would have had us made like one. HE wanted varieties! so that the universe is more colourful. Peolple will change to follow some thing new, if it attracts them, otherwise they just leave it. And people will not change for something new, if that something new has not much to offer in thought, culture or tradition. This is especially true of the majority of the non-Malays in this country!! Their cultures and traditions have so much depth in so many aspects that they see no advantage in changing their thoughts or out-look in life. So don’t waste too much time trying to change most of us. If we need to change we will change without somebody trying to preach to us! Well, I always give a reasonable preacher a chance to listen him out and of course he did be better be able to answer some ‘reasonable’ questions which many of us from the ancient and antique ‘tribes’ will ask. Hence the best policy is to each his own and the world will spin along in spite of all the nonsenses around. Those who fear symbols should also ask themselves their faith in their beliefs.

  33. #33 by ktteokt on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:43 pm

    Today, we see MCA coming out against PAS again on the Islamic nation issue. Is there a difference between PAS Islam and UMNO Islam? Are there two different Islam religions in the world or at least in Malaysia? Are there two different qurans? Otherwise, how come when PAS declares Malaysia an Islamic nation, MCA makes so much noise but when AAB announced Malaysia an Islamic state, MCA just kept quiet?

  34. #34 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:48 pm

    “A vote for DAP is a vote against UMNO. I all for DAP”

    What if DAP is not contesting the seat? Will you then still exercise your constitutional right to vote?

  35. #35 by yewhenry on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:05 am

    Mr. Lim,
    I have read the minutes of the parliamentary meeting dated 29th of October 2007 (downloaded from http://www.parlimen.gov.my). I was appalled when the MP for Parit Sulong actually made that kind of statement. Clearly, Mr. Lim that the MP for Parit Sulong wasn’t well-informed about the administration of such missionary schools such as the La Salle, Convent, Anglo-Chinese and Methodist schools. He believed that these schools, through the Board of Directors, were still under control by the Vatican City, which is totally a fallacy in itself. If I may say so, his claim was a complete farce.

    I was a student in a La Salle school in Ipoh (St. Michael’s Institution) for eleven years, and NEVER was there a day throughout my eleven years where I had to sing hymns (or “lagu-lagu gereja”), as the MP for Parit Sulong so put it, to start of my days in school.

    Not only that, the Board of Directors, which was once headed by the Brothers of the La Sallian Network (and were also the principals of the school) is now headed by the local people. I do not know about the other schools, but what I can confirm is that the schools were NEVER controlled by the Vatican City in any manner.

    What I was surprised is that the MP for Parit Sulong does not have a clear picture of how are mission schools like today, and the fact that the MP for Sri Gading even said that a father informed him that one of the schools did not close during the Hari Raya, it seemed to me that all this was spoken without solid evidence, such as who the informant was and which school was it that he was referring to.

    As citizens, we know that the MPs want to impress the people of their constituencies and letting them know that they are indeed doing something for the people. But with MPs like those of Parit Sulong and Sri Gading, not only do they give citizens a poor impression, they are portraying extremism in the sense that they become so “pantang” when they see the crosses that they could even propose to the Dewan Rakyat to have the crosses and the statues demolished and destroyed. Is this what we mean by respecting each other’s religion, culture and architecture?

    In a reversal of fortune, ASSUMING that a school is built in a non-Islamic state and the school is built with Islamic features such as the characteristic dome that can be seen on mosques (ASSUMING that such architectures are allowed on schools), how would the MP for Parit Sulong and Sri Gading feel if the MPs for that country propose that the dome be demolished because it is an Islamic influence? Wouldn’t they be enraged, too?

    Mr. Lim, I may not be of age to vote yet, but all I’d like to say is that MPs were chosen by the people as representatives in the hope for better future, better amenities, better services. We don’t want MPs making a fool of themselves by saying things that portrays lack of maturity and making conclusions and decisions that are emotionally driven. I strongly believe that as MPs, they must be rational in thinking. It is sad to see that rationality is not part of the vocabulary of some MPs today in the Parliament. And the fact that MPs like those of Parit Sulong and Sri Gading actually make such remarks prove that they have lack of sensitivity towards racial and religious sentiments. Also, where has their wisdom gone?

    Frankly, there are so many MPs (former and present) and members of the royal family who were brought up in mission schools, such as YAB Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak, His Highness Raja Dr. Nazrin Shah (Raja Muda of Perak), YAB Datuk Seri Lim Keng Yaik, YAB Tan Sri Lee Lam Thye, etc. The MP for Parit Sulong could have gathered information from these people before lambasting the missionary schools with false claims and accusations.

    The past administration of such missionary schools is no longer the same anymore today. It is important that everybody be in the know of how these missionary schools are run now and not bother with how they were run in the 50s or 60s. These schools have a legacy in this country, and the architecture is part of the legacy and history. They are a rare sight today and thus must not be destroyed.

    Finally, an advice to all MPs. If you have nothing better to say, stop finding convenient but offensive topics (such as this one to have the crosses and statues removed from missionary schools) to talk about and please, just keep quiet! If the tongue is going to cause more harm and than good, it is far better to just hold your tongue rather than portraying how foolish one is.

    Mr. Lim, I can’t believe that some people just like to waste other people’s time during parliamentary meetings. It is indeed sad that you have to go through such an ordeal, from morning till night.

    I could have gone overboard in my comments here, therefore if I have, I apologise. No hard feelings intended and I certainly have nothing against the MPs for Parit Sulong and Sri Gading. I merely want everybody to know that in whatever we do, we must ensure we have the proof before speaking up. It is important that we know our democracy is not absolute, but controlled. Freedom of speech has its limits, too.

  36. #36 by SkullOfScar on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:17 am

    All my family, relatives, friends, collegue, etc, etc, etc, etc… support DAP in no matter what. Let’s kick out Uneducated Monkey with No Otak, as much as we can. I will pray for you YB LKS.

  37. #37 by Aramaitii on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:38 am

    My skool(Sabah) SM Lok Yuk also removed cross. then they put a hornbill. SRK stella maris also had pictures of jesus and cross. Removed too…..

  38. #38 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:10 am

    undergrad2 Says:

    December 4th, 2007 at 21: 12.00

    “To these politicians may I recommend that you read the works of Jean Jacques Rousseau on the “Social Contract” or principles of political right. Just click here “http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm

    Very good intentions. But I really doubt most UMNO MPs would even understand if they click on. And that includes PM. It’s a different class of students you are taklking to. There is no hope as well for the new and younger generation because they (Hishammuddin’s MInistry) prefer to feed these minds on ‘Munshi Abdullah’, Hang Tuah and Jebat. And of course, previously, the speeches of Mahathir and his Malaay Dilemma. Today, it would be Pak Lah’s New hadhari.

    So – Rousseau, John Stuart Mill, Adam SMith, Socrates, Aristotle and hundreds, if not thousands of other thinkers, philosophers, economists, etc. Just no hope. Half of the UMNO MPs do not possess a level of English beyond ENid Blyton. Do you think Mohd Taib, Mohd Aziz, Said of JAsin, Bung of Kinabatangan and so many others even understand half of what LKS writes? No way. Only if LKS explains in Bahasa in Parliament.

    And as for their mindset, read this:
    http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/75628

  39. #39 by harrisonbinhansome on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:11 am

    Once again my highest salute to Uncle Kit. The rest of the MPs especially of Christian creed who remain reticent, may I pray that the LORD resusitate their souls.

    Amen.

  40. #40 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:18 am

    “How many mission schools in the country have the cross removed from school emblem?”

    Many moons before MAlaysian universities plunged to their abysmal depths (and still diving), there was this ‘dawn raid’ on the schools in MAlasyai. The fall in schools standards preceded the collapse in educational standards in schools. Today, Malaysian schools are twenty years behind many of the leading schools in the world.

    I see absolutely no hope for Malaysian schools and universities with the present crop of leaders and their polarized policies. Just expect the harvest to get worse and worse each year! Why be shocked at all. After all, it’s a rule of nature: “you reap what you sow”. And can you expect roes to hatch in brackish waters?

    A simple piece of advice: I think Malaysian non-Malay parents should just do what they have to do to ensure that their children’s minds do not rot in the current climate.

  41. #41 by carloz28 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:36 am

    “Santa Claus must dress in green, not red.”

    Cannot use the word Santa Claus, change to ‘Mat Natal’.

    Sungai Wang, Lot 10 and other skycrapers have be demolished because it is higher than the national mosque.

    Kuaci is banned in the entire country because the name is too chinese.

    P.Ramlee Movies is aired on 8tv channel every 2 hours in a day.

    History textbooks editted, Ibn Sina is one who created the original ‘Pil Chi Kit Teck aun’

  42. #42 by zack on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:55 am

    what the fuss? wherever you go in this world there is going to be preferences made …religiously, politically, ethnically and whatever … in Chine, in India, In American … everywhere … those in the minority have to learn to be part of the society and in the case of Malaysia … it happens to be islam, malays and UMNO ….. so what can the rest do but to accept that facts. The cross issue is an old one and for a highly respected LKS to bring it out is like opening an oudated sardine can …. we just throw it away ….. non issue and no fuss about it … its not like Christianity is ban here …. malaysian are free to profess any religion .. of course there are isolated cases like the lina joy but it must be treated as such. …..

  43. #43 by zack on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 2:01 am

    undergrad2 …
    your comment is in bad taste and to me is your way to insult Islam. The event in Sudan is very serious to us Muslim although you may not think so. Your joke is in bad taste since what you are doing is just to make fun of the incident ……

  44. #44 by kanthanboy on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:57 am

    Thank you a million times to Syed Hood (BN-Parit Sulong) and Mohamad Aziz (BN-Sri Gading) for raising the cross issue in the Devan Rakyat. If not for the diligent efforts of these 2 MP we are still in the dark that many mission schools already have the cross removed from their school emblems.

    Writers to LKS blog have so far provided the names of the following schools where the cross had been replaced in the school emblem. If you know of any other schools affected please post the information to this blog.

    + The cross in the ACS Ipoh’s badge was removed in 1974.

    + Assunta Secondary School in PJ had the tiny cross in the school emblem removed in the 90.s

    + The Convent School in JB had its cross replaced with a star from the school emblem about 20 over years ago.

    + St. David High School, Bukit Baru, Melaka, the cross had been replaced by a crown.

    + Convent Girls School in Muar, Cross was replaced with a cresent moon on badge.

    + Methodist Boys Secondary School, Kuala Lumpur.

    As YB Lim has called on the Minister of Education give a statement to explain how many schools in the country have the cross in the school emblem replaced. Let’s see whether Keris Hihammuddin will say he will continue to replace the cross from school emblems until Christian and other non-Malays become “desensitized” to it.

  45. #45 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 4:01 am

    ….and more. Stamford Raffles was never in Singapore and Francis Light never set foot on Pinang Island. There were no pinang trees to give its name to the island. Admiral Cheng Hoe never left China.

  46. #46 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 4:16 am

    Yes, soon they’ll send body snatchers in the middle of the night to snatch crosses.

  47. #47 by carloz28 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 5:02 am

    muahahahaaa

    Aladdin story books, cartoon and video games are permanently banned in the country until they decide to change the name of the protagonist… (sorry kids)

    Goverment impose a strict embargo on chicken tikka masala, buah pala and lala.(oyster)

    From now on, U can only have 3 malay names to choose from for your Teddy bears and pets…..Din, Mawi or Bungmokthar

  48. #48 by sotong on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 6:20 am

    PAS is true to Islam…..race is not an issue.

    Islam as an official religion of the country will be better under the proper guidance and supervision of PAS.

    UMNO mix of race and religion is most damaging to a multi racial and religious country.

  49. #49 by sotong on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 6:31 am

    Non Malays should not fear true Islam……it is the same as other true religions.

    Decades of politics of race and religion, let alone gross mismanagement, rampant corruption, crime, gross excesses and abuse and etc., had done permanent and long term damage to the country.

  50. #50 by HJ Angus on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:31 am

    I am sure if true Islam or any religion is properly administered as a state doctrine, the world would be a better place.

    But the basic problem is that man is simply too weak to resist temptation and soon with the power to rule, he becomes corrupt. Is there anywhere in the world where religion has been successful and properly administered?

    It is better that people always retain the power to kick out rulers that are not fit to rule.
    Best to keep religion and politics separate.

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