The Barisan Nasional leaders, led by Deputy Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak, should stop their truculent and confrontational responses to the Sunday 30,000 Hindraf demonstration in Kuala Lumpur, as illustrated by the following:
- Saber-rattling and tough language like newspaper headlines, “Kerajaan tidak gentar — Perhimpunan Hindraf jelas bermotif politik — Najib” (Utusan Malaysia) and “‘WE WON’T BACK DOWN’ — We will meet the challenge — Najib” (New Straits Times);
- warning of dire action by Umno leaders including the use of Internal Security Act; and
- Condemnation by Barisan Nasional MPs like the MP for Jasin Datuk Mohd Said Yusof branding the Hindraf leaders as “kurang ajar” and demanding action to be taken against them.
Instead of threatening all sorts of dire consequences against the Hindraf organizers and supporters, the Cabinet should offer an olive branch to acknowledge the legitimacy of the long-standing grievances of the Indian community at becoming the most marginalized group after 50 years of Merdeka by taking the following measures:
- Unconditional release of all 136 Hindraf supporters arrested during Sunday’s demonstration;
- Withdraw all charges and proceedings against Hindraf organizers, including P. Uthayakumar, P. Waytha Moorthy and V. Ganabatirau.
- Establish a commission of inquiry into the police handling of the Hindraf demonstration on Sunday;
- Support the establishment of a parliamentary select committee on the marginalization of the Indian community which should be given three months to submit its first report by early March next year.
In my first parliamentary speech when I returned to Parliament after the 2004 general election, I had called for a Parliamentary Select Committee on the Marginalisation of the Malaysian Indian community, the new underclass in the country.
I had quoted the paper “Election 2004: New Politics for Indian Malaysians” presented by “Group of Concerned Citizens” which had summarized nine long-standing fundamental issues faced by Indian Malaysians, as proper agenda to constitute the terms of reference of the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Marginalisation of the Malaysian Indian community, viz:
- The number of Indian youth dying in police custody has increased;
- The socio-economic inequality between the Indian poor and rich and between other communities has worsened;
- The State has not responded effectively in addressing social ills in the community;
- The State policies towards and financial allocation for Tamil schools remains pitiful;
- The University intake policy has been a source of major distress for the community;
- The State has not stepped in to help resolve the MAIKA scandal;
- The Kampung Medan racially-motivated killings have not been brought to a closure. No public inquiry was instituted.
- Low cost housing needs of the Indian poor have not been adequately addressed;
- The negative consequences of the final breakdown of the plantation economy on the Indian rural poor have still not be regulated. Aggressive displacement of Indian Malaysians is a serious problem.
There will now have to be a tenth term of reference — the rampant demolition of Hindu temples and disregard of the religious rights and sensitivities of the Malaysian Indian community.
On June 4, 2004 I had written to the Works Minister and MIC President, Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu, asking for his support in Cabinet for the establishment of a Parliamentary Select Committee to break the back of the problem of the marginalization of the Indian community, as the Indians in Malaysia had not received commensurate benefits from decades of national development.
Although Samy Vellu expressed support for the proposal for the establishment of a Parliamentary Select Committee on the Marginalisation of the Indian Community when he received my letter, nothing has been heard on the matter in the past three years.
Will the Cabinet heed the “cry of desperation” of the Malaysian Indian community as symbolized by the Hindraf demonstration on Sunday — or will it remain, blind, deaf and mute to the growing sense of despair, disillusionment and alienation of Malaysian Indians?
#1 by lkt56 on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 8:30 pm
The frustrations of the Indian community are evident…..
I believe the NEP was originally crafted with a sincere intention to quickly bring the weaker Malays up to strength so that they could also enjoy the wealth of our newly independent nation.
Sadly, today that original sincere intention of the policy seems to have (perhaps some are not even aware of it) evolved into a policy wherein some people erroneously believed that the NEP is associated with one group having special rights which is a birth right.
Such believe must be corrected and only the government is in the position to do so. The Hindraf Rally is a manifestation of the group on the wrong end of this unintended evolution of the NEP. As an ethnic Chinese, when I watch the photos, videos, of the rally I must be honest to say that I can empathize with Hindraf’s aspiration of wanting the government to take notice of their frustration.
How one handles this frustration lies entirely in one’s own mental attitude. Our Malaysia situation is something that calls for a great deal of understanding, tolerance, and most important of all, being able to see another as a human rather than as a Malay, Chinese, or Indian.
Our government should not ignore the people’s frustration. Talk of using the ISA for future rallies is certainly NOT going to help. The government should make a genuine effort to address the frustrations felt and expressed by not just the Indians but all Malaysians and it should also steer the NEP back into its original course.
I have viewed the video footage in parliament and honestly I feel that the debate could have taken place in a more matured manner. Too much emotion can only close the door to honest and sincere exchange. With the highly charged emotional atmosphere, the issue brought up by Hindraf never stood a chance of being properly aired and discussed in Parliament.
ARE WE CAPABLE OF CLOSING RANK AS ONE PEOPLE? :)
#2 by Count Dracula on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 8:47 pm
“I believe no government will deliver us our rights and liberty on the silver plater.” Limkamput
Then what happened on Aug. 31st 1957? Oh, I see….! It was not on a silver platter but banana leave.
I hope this here fellow is not your relative YB Lim.
#3 by Colonel on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 9:03 pm
“”The government can allow the demonstrations – as part of the democratization process giving expression to freedom of assembly – by granting police permits based on defined and clear parameters which organizers will be accountable to uphold and keep.” Jeffrey
Here’s what another commentator who goes by the handle, EARNEST has to say earlier:
“The BERSIH and HINDRAF gatherings were NOT illegal because Article 10 of the supreme law of the land, the Federal Constitution guarantees us our inalienable rights to peaceful gathering without arms….. As a result, since Police Act Section 27 regarding the police permit contravenes the supreme law, it is thereby automatically null and void.â€Â
Please confirm if Art. 10 sub-clauses (2), (3), (4) Federal Constitution 1957 have been repealed.
#4 by Godfather on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 9:07 pm
I am certain that there is strategising behind the scenes between PAS, DAP and PKR but these can’t come out into the open (not yet anyway) without upsetting the extreme right in these parties. What is needed now are cool heads, and great thinkers. What Kit needs to do is to control the DAP extreme right which thinks that it can go it alone, and to hell with PAS. If Kit doesn’t exercise control over this faction, and they start mouthing off like Karpal Singh recently did, then life will not change for us. DAP will win maybe 20 seats, PKR may win 2 – 3 seats and PAS will control Kelantan and Trengganu. That leaves the door wide open for the den of thieves to continue operating.
#5 by Colonel on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 10:04 pm
“The world has changed and if we look around us, racism and discrimination are so out of sync with the world today.†Limkamput
The world has changed??? Which hole did you crawl out from?
Everywhere I go I see racism and racial discrimination. I was in Sydney the other day and overheard a conversation between two whites lamenting about losing their country to slit eyed chinks and nips. Then just the other day I came across two Brits in Luton (an Indian enclave) obviously visitors to this part of the country who complained about Pakis ( a derogatory term used loosely to refer to Pakistanis and Indians) ruining their country with the smell of curry, and how one of them has had to vacate his apartment because she could not stand the strong smell of curry etc. One cannot help but wonder why they come to Luton in the first place because as you drive towards the town, the smell of curry is in the air miles before you arrive!
There was this one day when I was waiting for a flight out to San Francisco from Narita when I overheard two Japanese businessmen referring to Italians as “itako†which in Japanese means “stupid†according to my Japanese friend who was with me.
Racism is a fact of life for as long as there are different races walking the earth. Racism is a belief that members of each race has abilities or characteristics specific to that race so as to distinguish it as superior to or inferior to another race. It is prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on that belief.
To say “it is out of sync with the world today†is to fail to understand the nature of racism, to be simplistic and naive about a problem that is complex, subtle and far-reaching in its consequences.
#6 by lakshy on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 10:35 pm
This is an SMS I just received:
Note to All Malaysian Indians: Pls call our elected Representative in Parliament and ask whatever help U people needs. These so called Indian and Hindu leaders will fulfill your needs: Dato S. Samy Vellu:019-2165555, Dato’ G Palanivel: 012-2051557, Dato’ S. Veerasingam:012-5068888, S. Sothinathan:019-3176541, K. Komala:019-2631909, S.A.Vigneswaran:019-3832281, S. Subramaniam:012-6013370. Pls pass this msg to all Msian Indians out there.
Oh, by the way, I did ask for Devamany’s contact number but was told that even MIC members have deleted his number already!
#7 by Colonel on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 10:39 pm
““….those in government today do not know what constitutes good governance and ethical behaviour.†Limkamput
Excuse me??? Such condescending attitude is typical of someone who thinks too highly of himself. First, this bloke says it is “a waste of time†to talk about good governance, implying that YB Kit should stop talking about “good governance†on his blog, and now he insults the intelligence of those in government service by saying they do not understand what good governance and ethical behaviour is.
I have been in government service (MINDEF) for some twenty plus years and I can confirm that we do understand. So please do not hurl insults at our intelligence.
Cheers.
#8 by lakshy on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 10:50 pm
Colonel …then how do you explain the over priced caperas, and car jacks and screwdrivers?
What about teh maintenance contract for naval vessels? Who does it go to? How much for each vessels annual maintenance? The way we spend on the maintenance, we may as well buy a new vessel!
And how can the contract be awarded to the recently retired Navy chief? Sounds like poor governance?
#9 by shaolin on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 10:55 pm
Pulau_Sibu,
100% agree to your suggestion and all my full & strong
support!!
Uncle Lim KS must lead to form nationwide street demon-
stration in every state throughout whole Malaysia to show
the Peoples’ strength and power, like Dr. Martin Luther
King did in US and led the Minority Black Power to make
new US History…!!
We need all the Opposition Leaders to organize and lead
all the Poor Peoples to fight for their rights to survive
better and lead a decent life!!
Malaysia Government under AAB Administration neglects
poverty and sufferings caused to all the poors, regardless
of their origin and race!!
We request All Opposition Party Leaders to join hands and
form stronger forces to demand the Basic Rights to survive
for All the Poor Peoples of Malaysia!!!
We demand CHANGE of Government and SACRIFICES is
necessary for the Benefits of All Brotherhood!!
Long Live the Spirit of Martin Luther King!!!
#10 by HJ Angus on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:04 pm
I am sure those in high office know what is good governance but it seems many do not practise it.
Just look at the simmering RM4b PKFZ project.
Maybe it is a case of
“The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak”.
#11 by malaysiatoday.com on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:07 pm
tiban Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 17: 58.26
I believe HINDRAF have all the right to handover the memorandum and voice out their claims as one should not forget that on 21st Sept 1967, The Goverment of Japan signed the ‘Perjanjian Muhibbah (Hutang Darah)’ with The Malaysian Goverment to compensate Malaysian Chinese for the sufferings that they endure during the Japanese Occupation (1941~1945). The Goverment of Japan compensated the Malaysian Goverment with 2 ships and supports to establish Malaysian Shipping Corporation (MISC). Please refer to : http://hids.arkib.gov.my/doc/2001/september/21_09_1967_2001.htm
=====================
2 ships and set up MISC for bumi is called compensation for wwII crime is a joke and insulting to those people killed by Jap.
Malaysia Chinese community has never accepted this compensation.
#12 by malaysiatoday.com on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:13 pm
Don’t forget that during WW II the majority of Malays including former UMNO politicians were working with Jap to chase out British and support Jap imperial army against Chinese-led resistance forces.
“2 ships” should be assumed as award for UMNO politicians for co-horted with Jap imperial army in WW II.
#13 by greenacre on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:36 pm
lakshy….thanks for the phone numbers. Now I can call them for help as I need a job badly. 50+ masters and no job. Want to see how they solve quietly within the system.. sh!
#14 by lakshy on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:39 pm
Seriously? Masters in what? Perhaps I can assist.
But do me a favour. Call them and chew their asses first for not standing up for the Indians. They are a disgrace to the community. Heck they may become untouchables yet!
#15 by lakshy on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:43 pm
Colonel,
MINDEF should have many examples of poor governance. High priced purchase contracts. Why buy through a third party unknown company and not direct G to G? Kickbacks? Can the unknown company come up with the Billions of dollars to pay for these weapons? Come on who are you trying to kid?
The high priced cameras, screwdrivers, pens jacks are only the tip of the iceberg.
Tell me how much is the annual maintenance service contract for ONE naval vessel? The amount being paid is enough to buy a new vessel and we can sell the old one to another third world country!
Why do we award the service and spares supply contract to the former/retired head of navy? See any conflicts? Some nations have a cooling off period of 5 years post retirement before the person can supply to the military. Why dont we adopt such healthy practices?
#16 by AhPek on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:44 pm
Colonel,
What you have observed in your travels conforms perfectly to an inperfect world inhabited by mortals not immortals.One of the commenters (an UMNO apologist) of Kit’s blog has a habit of reminding commenters (when government is accused of corruption or racism) that Malaysia is not perfect.
Racism like corruption is found everwhere and there is no place on earth that is free from these two evils.However there is this thing called the International Corruption Index which will rank nations according to which is the least corrupt down to the most corrupt.Unfortunately Malaysia doesn’t fare too well and she is also not doing much about it and in fact since the latest ranking list has come out she has regressed further! The 3 countries that is mentioned by you to have cast racial slur does not surprise most people.You see the fact is most countries have what you call an attitudinal discrimination against their minorities.That’s not too damaging against the minority.For example if you discriminate me because of my skin, it is your right of opinion. I won’t tear my guts out to have you change that.But here in Malaysia the discrimination is constitutional and one must change it at all cost because it is damaging to the minorities in this country in terms of opportunities denied!!!
#17 by Godfather on Tuesday, 27 November 2007 - 11:48 pm
“Everywhere I go I see racism and racial discrimination. I was in Sydney the other day and overheard a conversation between two whites lamenting about losing their country to slit eyed chinks and nips. Then just the other day I came across two Brits in Luton (an Indian enclave) obviously visitors to this part of the country who complained about Pakis ( a derogatory term used loosely to refer to Pakistanis and Indians) ruining their country with the smell of curry, and how one of them has had to vacate his apartment because she could not stand the strong smell of curry etc.”
Colonel
Yes, racism is everywhere but nowhere is it condoned or systemised as in Bolehland. In the other countries you mentioned (Australia, UK) there are no policies that discriminate against the minorities but in Bolehland, there is systematic marginalisation of citizens of minority races. In other countries, you can seek redress in a court of law. In Bolehland, UMNO is the law, the prosecution, the judge and the jury.
#18 by Rocky on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 12:34 am
jeffrey,
unfortunately this govt doesn’t know how to deal with the issues and the rallies. Give permit like you say but they are worried cos the truth hurts thus they rather use the ISA etc and which they will use soon.
The indians have a few issues, the death bodies being grabbed by people and the courts are not giving them fair hearings and here I’m not talking about the syariah court. also cases of conversions which again puts the indian against the wall and the constitution is not respected. than there is the limited opportunities for the indians and we are not talking about stupid fellows here, smart guys are not given a chance to either pick the course they want or totally rejected while people with lower qualifications are given places. So how does a normal indian person feels. And the BN has look the other side while all these is going on, the courts are not a place of last resort as they pass rulings based on how thgeir feel and their religion instead of the constitution.
So who is going to defend the Indians. MIC? hell no way. Chinese or Malays. Not really. Thus they have to take to the streets and get as much attention as they can thus the lawsuit.
Now that they have made their point, they need to find another way to move forward. maybe link it with a bigger issue, defending the poor of all races and defending the constitution. These are issue that can cut thru racial lines. So Hindraf you need to shift to issues that are not race based and attract or join forces with other people with same goals.
#19 by brammma14 on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 12:48 am
Racism is everywhere but it will be done a small group of syupid people. But here it started from the top level. Discrimination officially done by authorities. Just as an example, when I went to a local university to study accounting in 1997, there were 15 Indians out of 150 students but in 2004 when my cousin went there for the same course, he was the only Indian.
Eventually, we’re going to lose 140 Indian Accountants in next 10 years. What about other universities? Not all non-bumis afford to go to private universities. Injustice in Education is the killer blow
#20 by pwcheng on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 1:22 am
Colonel: Yes I agree with you that racism exists everywhere but as what Godfather had put it rightly and which you had failed to see is that in Malaysia, RACISM is doctored racism where UMNO had doctored it to suit their own political advancement and inherently make use of it to fill their pockets. What is supposed to be for 30 years had been extended for another 20 years and this Never Ending Policy is played up by them as a constitutional right whenever there are cries of help for the other races. We cannot stop an individual for being a racist ( as most of us have also observed the same scenario at one time or other in many foreign countries) but the government had at least responded by imposing some laws as a check, eg. in Australia they had the anti racist law, but here the government condone it.
That is the BIG difference and that malice which is inspired and promoted by the UMNO government is lawful which naturally brings hatred and divide among the races
#21 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 2:04 am
I agree with what you said that Hindraf should move on ie transmigrate from the race level (Indian marginalisation) to a wider national level “joining forces with other people with same goalsâ€Â.What are however the chances that it will do so?
Something is quite strange here.
In August Hindraf compiled a 18-point memorandum ( on tamil schools, allocation of land, minimum wage, stop temple demolishment etc ) produced from a forum held recently in KL . It organized a gathering/march (supposed to be 10am Sunday August 12th) to the PM’s residence at Precinct 10 in Putrajaya. I understand that it attracted only about 1500 supporters.
I would have thought last Sunday’s march would have addressed the Indian community’s grievances direct vis-à-vis the government just like the August Memo sought to do so.
But Lo no, it is very oblique, mixed up with grievances against the British Government instead.
It was a march to the British Embassy in reference to a class action on behalf of Malaysian Indians filed at The Royal Courts of Justice in London to sue the UK Government for US$4 trillion (US$1 million for every Malaysian Indian) for bringing Indians as indentured laborers into Malaya, “exploiting them for 150 years” and thereafter failing to protect the minority Indians’ rights in the Federal Constitution when independence was granted.
Basically, my personal opinion is that this class action is a frivolous one in law having no prospect at all of an iota chance of winning in British Courts.
Well I am aware that some of course would not agree with me but supposing I am 100% correct and both the organisers of last Sunday 25th Nov March as well as those who initiated the class action knew it.
So what are the organisers really trying to do?
By the Nov 25th March, did they want to take issue with the UK Government or the Malaysian government here or both? Did they march to ostensibly protest at the British Embassy just so as to have the oportunity to engage against Malaysian government and police on the streets of KL?
Why do it in such a roundabout way using such a pretext of fighting the Brits to fight the Malysian government? If one’s grievances are legitimate – and I am sure that the grievances of Malaysian Indians are legitimate – what’s wrong with organising the 25th Nov march straight to Precinct 10 Putrajaya to present the grievances contained in August Memorandum instead of obliquely via a Petition to the British Embassy? And was the Petition eventually submitted to that embassy?
The last time in Aug Hindraf could rally 1500 marchers ; this time allegedly 20,000! Why the exponential increase in number of marchers? Has the US$4 trillion (US$1 million for every Malaysian Indian) class action have got anything to do with the exponential increase in supporters compared to the 1500 in August bearing in mind the grievances contained in the memorandum in Aug and those in the Petition on 25th Nov are basically the same?
What did the organisers tell its supporters and what hopes were raised? Did the organisers talk of rights or money here or both? I am a little confused.
This has direct bearing on the methods of the organisers behind Hindraf which in turn may or may not have a direct bearing on the equation – and chances – whether they will be prepared to join forces with other groups for larger national causes relating to citizenry rights cutting across racial lines.
#22 by DarkHorse on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 2:20 am
“Yes, racism is everywhere but nowhere is it condoned or systemised as in Bolehland.” Godfather
With all due respect, I think you have mixed up ‘racism’ and ‘racial discrimination’. The former is a belief and the former a practice. What is the difference?? You can stem out one but not the other. Guess which one?
#23 by DarkHorse on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 2:36 am
Lee Wang Yen, our PhD student in University of Cambridge would have argued that ‘racism’ is immoral but ‘racial discrimination’ is not only immoral but is illegal – except in Malaysia where racial discrimination has been institutionalized.
It is worth reading again what he said:
“An act in violation of a country’s law does not necessarily mean that the act is morally wrong or bad, because the law may be morally bad or wrong, or the implementation of the law may be unjust or flawed, thus making a particular ruling based on that law morally wrong or bad.”
It is most unfortunate that Lee was forced to retreat from this blog.
#24 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 4:32 am
““It was a march to the British Embassy in reference to a class action on behalf of Malaysian Indians filed at The Royal Courts of Justice in London to sue the UK Government for US$4 trillion (US$1 million for every Malaysian Indian) for bringing Indians as indentured laborers into Malaya, “exploiting them for 150 years†and thereafter failing to protect the minority Indians’ rights in the Federal Constitution when independence was granted.
Basically, my personal opinion is that this class action is a frivolous one in law having no prospect at all of an iota chance of winning in British Courts. “ Jeffrey QC
It would have made more sense had they named as defendants British plantation owners who owned vast tracts of rubber estates. They exploited Indian labor to make vast profits.
Similar class action suits have been filed elsewhere including the United States and have failed. The real purpose of HINDRAF, I should think, is not to make a millionaire out of every Malaysian Indian but to bring international attention to the plight of Indians in Malaysia. However, it is not as if the international community does not know, or is not aware or have not heard about the discriminatory practices by the Malaysian government against minorities in its own country.
The United Nations does not even consider anybody fleeing racial discrimination in search of a job and life anywhere as a “refugee†requiring support and protection. The 1951 Convention on Refugees (later expanded by the 1967 U.N. Protocol) does not consider racial discrimination as persecution. The “Hindraf Trio†do not qualify as “refugees fleeing persecution†– however, Lina Joy does (and she is not applying to go anywhere!).
The other objective, I should think, is to unite the Indians. We forget that Indians are far from being a homogenous lot as the Japanese are. If it is any indication I heard only Tamil spoken during the demonstrations. What happened to the Gujeratis, Malayalees, Punjabis, Bengalis etc.? Why weren’t they there? (By the way I have never come across a poor Malayalee, a poor Gujerati, a poor Punjabi or a poor Bengali). It is, nevertheless, a deafening indictment of the MIC which has failed to represent the poor among its members who are predominantly Tamils.
Having said that and, if I may say so, the Indians in Malaysia are their own worst enemy. Theirs is a case of “united we won’t and divided we fallâ€Â.
But you are right, Jeffrey. It is a frivolous suit and will be struck out with costs if filed.
And what’s with the Queen??
#25 by lakshy on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 7:25 am
But it has captured the hearts of many and has united many Indians. It will achieve its objectives, which perhaps you do not realize what it is yet.
#26 by dawsheng on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 7:32 am
“It is most unfortunate that Lee was forced to retreat from this blog.”
I don’t think so. Judging from his previous post I know he is not “that type of person”. He is busy with his thesis lah.
#27 by dawsheng on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 7:41 am
“Kerajaan tidak gentar”
No need for such a statement when you are not.
“Perhimpunan Hindraf jelas bermotif politik” Najib
But since when it is not about politics? It is all about politic Mr DPM Najib. You are clearly also “that type of person” lah! It is all about politics man…
#28 by Libra2 on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 7:52 am
Jeffrey,
Why to the British?
A direct confrontation against the UMNO led government would be suicidal for the Indians. UMNO will turn the entire issue into a racial one, even ignoring the country’s future, so as to ensure their political survival. This racist party will then organize its own rally, perhaps going into 100s of thousands.
To avoid this possible scenario, Hindraf took a detour and went for the British, but nevertheless drawing international attention to BN’s discriminatory policies and marginalization of the race.
That was why UMNO and its police went down hard to crackdown the protest.
The letter to the Brtish can now be thrown away as it has served its purpose.
The Indians have spoken. Now the ball is in UMNO’s court. Keep on rattling its sabre and keris or address the problem.
Its time UMNO to lock its Malay Supremacy ego in a closet and think of the country’s future.
I disagree with Jeffrey that the organisers will give their personal bond on the rally. Why? UMNO will send its agent provocateurs to cause havoc.
#29 by Godamn Singh on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:01 am
“….drawing international attention to BN’s discriminatory policies and marginalization of the race.”
Do you think the world cares??? Grow up!
#30 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:04 am
It is definitely a deafening indictment of the MIC.
And I am sure you are right that the class action was intended to bring international attention to the plight of Indians in Malaysia. (It is to be noted that Bersih march also received international media attention including Al Jazeera coverage without a frivolous suit against anyone but just directed straight at the government).
It however makes me wonder how the right of Malaysian Indians to address their legitimate grievances might be served and advanced on the international plane by being associated with the filing of what to me is a frivolous class action suit against Elizabeth Regina for actions in the past that has not the slightest chance of winning…
No one doubts the integrity of Hindraf’s cause to seek redress for the underclass plight of Malaysian ethnic Indians, the seriousness of which, more so, should require correct analysis on the part of organizers and conceptualisers of how best to start the campaign.
The question therefore arises whether Hindraf’s campaign was best initiated and premised upon a misplaced class action against the Queen of England that will provide Hindraf’s detractors within government or MIC or BN sympathizers at least two bullets to question and shoot at the rally/march to present the petition to the British Embassy : the first is they will question whether the successful mobilization of supporters were due to the lure of promised sums of money from the class suit (if believed to have a chance of succeeding) rather than just the moral fervour and indignation to seek redress of their citizens’ rights being side-lined if not trampled (since last August memorandum by Hindraf to the PM on the same subject of Indians’ plight attracted only a fraction of the crowd on November 25th); and second, as Rocky correctly albeit indirectly alluded to, whether Hindraf’s campaign against the wrong policies of the government, a very big part of which is its ethnic policies, could be fought effectively on the moral front by an equally ethnic based mobilization by Hindraf on November the 25th in isolation and separate from the legitimate grouses of all other non bumiputra communities in relation to the same subject. (Which is why as he urged, (to quote) “they need to find another way to move forward. maybe link it with a bigger issue, defending the poor of all races and defending the constitution. These are issue that can cut thru racial lines” – unquote).
This is also not counting into consideration the confusion of some wondering why the march was proceeding to the British embassy to air the grouses whilst engaging simultaneously on another front against Malaysian police over grouses directed at the Malaysian government. Can’t they (Hindraf) just aim and shoot straight and fast (rather than oblique and roundabout) at the real target?
#31 by Bigjoe on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:16 am
What did I tell you about Abdullah turning right on this? The man has weak leadership and intellectual skills. He can’t see that he is trying to put the genie back in the bottle at a time when its not possible. He is mimicking Dr. M during his early days. But there are big difference and that is the internet and globalization. People are more aware and connected which Dr. M did not have to deal with.
Hindraf is not going to be so stupid as to hold another demo without thinking of the possibility of ISA detention so warning of ISA is stupid as with the most newspaper fanning the Malay right-wing sentiments.
Abdullah don’t get it that its not Hindraf he should be most afraid off by reaction by the right wing in his party. Hindraf will automatically trigger support of the right-wing Malay to support UMNO so there is no need to actually fan the right wing sentiment. Instead of jumping in front of the right-winger, his response should have been just to agree with whatever the right-wing demand, not doing it unnecessarily.
By jumping ahead of the right-winger, he alienates the non-bumi and put himself in a corner. What if Hindraf ups the the ante with him. If he think they cannot outwit him, he is compounding his weak intellect with arrogance/apathy.
If I were Hindraf, next time have a demo, I have all the temple chiefs, women and children up front and have the police drag them away for some free meals. ISA is worthless after that and pretty much his entire administration legitimacy..
#32 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:17 am
“..//…I disagree with Jeffrey that the organisers will give their personal bond on the rally. Why? UMNO will send its agent provocateurs to cause havoc..//… – Libra2
You are right there. It is a real or I would say probable risk. Many years back a Singapore student leader dissident Tan Wah Piow was arrested for creating a riot (when he addressed some labor unions) when the authorities allegedly planted their agent provocateurs to cause a ruckus by breaking a few tables and chairs in the meeting giving immediate excuse to arrest him.
Such underhand tactics pose a very serious problem extending beyond the issue of “personal bond”. I can imagine that the government could do a “houdini?” by pretending to be liberal and grant the police permits to so called uphold article 10(1)(b) of the Constitution on right to assembly only to plant some agent provocateurs amongst the crowd of demonstrators to throw stones or some objects causing hurt to the police/FRU giving the required pretext/excuse to immediately crack down and arrest the organisers Operation Lallang style. In context as long as demonstrations are resorted to, there is always this real risk of how they could put an end to these demonstrations based on such trumped up events by agent provocateurs. :)
#33 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:26 am
Libra2, I think you’re likely right about Hindraf’s intended strategy – and definitely so on the part of the agent provocateurs – though regarding strategy, it is opened, as I said, to other interpretations. :)
#34 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:32 am
Big Joe, I think deliberately putting women and children up front in a demonstration and in harm’s way is not such a good idea.
#35 by Bigjoe on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 8:58 am
I did not say put the women and children in harms way, I said have them being taken away by the police. The temple chiefs can be the first line and take the brunt of the beating. The police are not stupid enough to harm the women and children which were also present during last week demo..
#36 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 9:25 am
The latest updates on the Hindraf’s Nov 25th gathering per today’s news (The Star):
· (Front page) The PM said he would use the ISA against street demonstrations.
· Hindraf not only disclaimed affiliation with any political party but also disclaimed the rally of Nov 25th organized by it : Quote of report on what Hindraf’s secretary V K Regu said : “He also said it was wrongfully claimed that the gathering on Sunday was a Hindraf organized rally as it never sent out any form of invitation for the gathering and even the SMS messages calling for the mass gathering did not originate from the movement. He said the publicity actually came from statements by the police and the Government against Hindraf’s decision to hand over the memorandum†to the British High Commission.
· The British High Commission said that it did not receive any petition from Hindraf. British High Commissioner to Malaysia Boyd McCleary said: “We offered to accept the petition on Sunday but it was not deliveredâ€Â.
· Minister in PM’s Department Nazri Aziz said K Devamany should not be left off the hooks for breaking ranks. He asked, “Should we let Robin Hood of the hook just because he’s a hero? He robed the rich and gave to the poor but he was still breaking the law…Should we allow people to be popular among the community by breaking ranks? Or should we consider the welfare of the whole BN?†He reiterated his stand that if Devamany had disputed his own party, he should resign from the MIC.
· The MIC top brass have however come out in defence of K Devamany, with Samy Vellu saying that “what Devamany had meant to say was that the government was not doing enough for the Indian community. And here comes the classic spin from Samy – “ Policy failure is different from not doing enough. Devamany meant to say that the government was not doing enough…but everyone is not doing enough..â€Â
“But everyone is not doing enough..�???? :)
#37 by AhPek on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 9:34 am
I don’t for one moment believe that the organisers of this HINDRAF movement think they would stand any chance at all of success in their lawsuit against the British Government.Their intention is certainly not the 4 trillion USD, more so it is the drawing of world attention of the plight of marginalisation of the Indians on what better platform than the British Court.For that I think it is a marvellous strategy, most brilliant.After all Malaysia is not so well known as Singapore and this coming court case will certainly have the effect of getting Malaysia known everywhere.
The other point is they (the Tamils) must have felt that for the last 50 years MIC has not done anything to improve the lot of the Tamils and it is about time to tell Samy that they might vote en bloc the opposition party.They have after all been the most ardent as well as the most loyal supporter of BN all these years.This is also a very telling point to advance their cause.
The Indians who vote for opposition are the other Indians like the Gujeratis,Malayalees,Punjabis and the Bengalis.They are indeed a small by comparison and most of them are not MIC members. In terms of vote value they don’t count that much and after all their votes go to the opposition. It is the Tamil votes that counts and
their votes are crucial as swing votes that can swing the opposition party to victory in any mixed constituency.
Maybe as Jeffrey says the lawsuit against Britain is frivolous but the impact they have on a world wide scale is certainly greater than that of BERSIH once the court case gets into swing.
#38 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 9:37 am
“…Should we allow people to be popular among the community by breaking ranks?…” – Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz.
Because they can’t break ranks dictated by UMNO (without being accused to be “Robin Hood”, that is why the component parties cannot serve and have not served – indeed they have sold out – the interest of their respective communities which they pledge to serve under our communal political system. :)
#39 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 9:42 am
In the United States in recent years 35 million descendants of black slaves filed class- action lawsuits against various American corporations asking not only for unspecified monetary damages but also recognition.
In the U.S. it was alleged slavery stigmatized, raped, murdered and exploited millions of Africans through no fault of their own.
Can the same be said in the case of Indians in Malaysia?
“Indentured labor†involves agreement to work in a British colony for a land owner in return for passage. Indians were not brought in from India as slaves in slave ships, with both legs shackled to chains and forced to work in rubber plantations and on death railways.
In fact later waves of Indian migrants came voluntarily in search of a better life and they were drawn from the professional and the middle class from the higher castes.
I do not see any parallel between the two i.e. slaves from Africa and indentured laborers from southern India. One could make similar argument involving the current exploitation of cheap labor from Indonesia, Bangladesh, Burma etc The latter were brought in by ‘coyotes’ to work at such low rates of pay and living in some cases in conditions reminiscent of the time when slavery was the rule.
Orang Asli, indigenous tribes in Sarawak and Sabah and Malays probably have stronger reasons for filing such class-action law suits against the U.K. government for destroying forever the demographics of their country with its “open door policy†towards immigration.
What say Jeffrey QC and AhPek and Godfather?
#40 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 9:44 am
Further, what of the statute of limitations?
#41 by oknyua on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 11:03 am
“Orang asli, indigenous tribes…” undergrad2.
We tried to wrestle back Sarawak and Sabah out of Malaysia. A few landed in Kamnunting; I don’t have to go down the names. The points of contentions for us: (1) Corruptions at state levels appear to be supported and protected by KL. (2) Resources from the two states helped to finance the excesses of KL. (3) The point of religions. (4) Governor/Chief Minister issue. (5) Revenues. I can’t remember all the points.
Unlike Hindraf, the Sarawak indigenous are fragmented lot (divide/rule), no small thanks to the former Energy Minister. So what class action for a divided group? Ask the Deputy Foriegn minister, Joe. So Joe, where are all the fine ideas you have 20 years ago?
#42 by H2S on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 11:17 am
i dont understant 1 things.we indians and chinies come to malaysia with almost nothing and in malaysia we did not have land o anything.right.but currents in 2007 according to the gorv they are still helping the malays with this bumiputra thing because they are poor.if u think logicly they had land gorv support and what not in this country but they are still more poor then us.according to the gorv we indians and chinies are richer then malays hold a big part in the econ of malaysia.since gorv say we have a big part in the econ that means we indians and chinies did more then malays for advance this country to a very respected 1.After that also we dont get equal rights in this country.just something to think about.what has gone wrong. Indians and Chinies do so much for the country get so little.
#43 by oknyua on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 11:18 am
I’ve just read Star. Front page, AAB threatening Hindraf with ISA.
What is this AAB head? Is he really that st…id? You go ahead and use your ISA and you would forever be remembered [deleted]. How could a PM at this age, 2007, still think like he is in the 60′s? It just cannot enter my mind.
#44 by Godfather on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 11:22 am
The threat to use ISA only solidifies our belief that the thieves are really threatened and worried, and now they need to use all means at their disposal to get us to back down.
When the backs of the thieves are against the wall, and when they realise that to lose against the public could result in jail terms for them, they will use whatever means necessary to quell the rebellion.
#45 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 11:54 am
There is a downside to the recent HINDRAF demonstrations.
It is most unfortunate that the lack of overt support given by the Opposition parties – albeit HINDRAF appears to be a loose conglomeration of various groups said not to be linked to any of the poitical parties – makes the demonstration by Indians against the UMNO (read: Malay) dominated government look like it is a racial affair.
I believe it is a big mistake in terms of electoral strategy as Malays now would look upon this demonstration as being anti-Malay rather than anti-BN and UMNO dominated government.
#46 by Public Freedom on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 11:58 am
The Men Of Steel, These Men Of Power
Are Losing Control By The Hour
This Is The Time, This Is The Place
So We Look For The Future
But There’s Not Much Love To Go Around
Tell Me Why This Is A Land Of Confusion
This Is The World We Live In
And These Are The Hands We’re Given
Use Them And Let’s Start Trying
To Make It A Place Worth Living In
http://publicfreedommalaysia.blogspot.com/
#47 by Godfather on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 12:05 pm
I wouldn’t worry too much about the statute of limitations because if there is a suit, it will not be against Britain, but against the Government of Malaysia for systematically introducing and inducing immigrants from Pakistan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, India, the Middle East and Africa to the detriment of native Malaysians.
These are fairly recent events and are still continuing.
I think the issue is that whilst I am sure we (or the natives) have locus standi to bring such an action, I am almost certain that the courts will deny any action given that they are totally subservient to UMNO. Furthermore, those who bring the action will be subject to harrassment by the enforcement agencies who are also subservient to UMNO, and will be subject to ridicule in the mainstream press as these are also undoubtedly subservient to Zainuddeen “Goebbels” Maideen.
#48 by Godfather on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 12:10 pm
Undergrad2:
What you are implying is that the DAP and PAS should come out in support of Hindraf and that will eliminate the ‘Indianness” of the rally and make it more of a multiracial disaffection for the den of thieves.
I think Kit has been in support of Hindraf all along, but we haven’t heard a squeak from PAS. Can someone contact PAS and seek their support ?
#49 by Godfather on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 12:18 pm
I posted this on another thread after seeing a stark black and white picture in a foreign newspaper last week:
“That black and white picture of a Jewish family (parents and two kids) holding whatever belongings in their hands and walking away under the watchful eyes of the Gestapo – this should haunt those of you who think that the downward spiral of personal liberty or the continuing marginalisation of minorities can be tolerated or accomodated. One reader even said that he currently lives in comfort and has enough to eat, unlike his relatives in India, so why the fuss ?
Such inability to worry about the future in the face of UMNO antics over the years is indeed myopic. Yes, look at the Jewish family as a Chinese or an Indian family, and look at the Gestapo as UMNO – and history will repeat itself in Bolehland.”
#50 by Bigjoe on Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - 1:30 pm
Steven Gan has a good piece on Malaysiakini about who is to be blamed for the BN’s predicament that culiminates with Hindraf rally http://www.malaysiakini.com/editorials/75321
Basically he blames it in on Abudullah and his famous SIL.
Hindraf is why the likes of SIL must not only make it up UMNO, he must be stopped now. With people like SIL, Hindraf-like rallies will only get worst. Compared to the likes of Zaid Ibrahim and Imtiaz Sanwar, SIL is a prodigal son, unworthy to inherit the what was created by Tunku, Razak and Hussein Onn or even Dr. M. SIL is more like his father-in-law then most people think. He may be have different style but his intellect compared to his the real smart ones of his peer is no different than his father-in-law and his peers.