Comments on: BERSIH petition to King – acid test whether it marks the burial of Abdullah’s 4-yr pledge to hear the truth http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/ for Malaysia Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:28:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: ktteokt http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55642 ktteokt Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:42:31 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55642 So unbecoming of a Malaysian Minister!!!! So unbecoming of a Malaysian Minister!!!!

]]> By: Sivin Kit’s Garden » Random Links 193 (Bersih Malaysia “Resurrection” Edition) http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55437 Sivin Kit’s Garden » Random Links 193 (Bersih Malaysia “Resurrection” Edition) Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:59:17 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55437 [...] BERSIH petition to King - acid test whether it marks the burial of Abdullah’s 4-yr pledge to hear th... [...] [...] BERSIH petition to King – acid test whether it marks the burial of Abdullah’s 4-yr pledge to hear th… [...]

]]> By: k1980 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55428 k1980 Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:31:59 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55428 More photos on ten-eleven http://quaintly.net/2007/11/12/we-know-what-we-want/ More photos on ten-eleven
http://quaintly.net/2007/11/12/we-know-what-we-want/

]]> By: Bigjoe http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55412 Bigjoe Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:37:02 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55412 I almost fell off my chair when I heard Nazri screaming on TV. Now I am not interested in gov response (its too predictable). What I want to know is the sexual proclivities of Nazir. The word 'pondan' came out so easily for him, I suspect he either has a thing for them or at the very least is homophobic. Frankly. I have met many men of high position like him that deep down, they secretly has a thing for 'pondan'. I almost fell off my chair when I heard Nazri screaming on TV. Now I am not interested in gov response (its too predictable). What I want to know is the sexual proclivities of Nazir. The word ‘pondan’ came out so easily for him, I suspect he either has a thing for them or at the very least is homophobic.

Frankly. I have met many men of high position like him that deep down, they secretly has a thing for ‘pondan’.

]]> By: akarmalaysian http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55352 akarmalaysian Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:00:07 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55352 this idiot nazri always behaves like a hooligan and as if u people dun knw abt it.dun talk abt him....hes just a useless puppet whos trying so hard to make noise just to attract attention.he always say the wrong thing at the wrong time and he never ever said the right thing.period. this idiot nazri always behaves like a hooligan and as if u people dun knw abt it.dun talk abt him….hes just a useless puppet whos trying so hard to make noise just to attract attention.he always say the wrong thing at the wrong time and he never ever said the right thing.period.

]]> By: Sintiansai http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55324 Sintiansai Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:37:37 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55324 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkTNH-ZLvSo&NR=1 the interview between zam and AlJazeera was unclear because of his unintelligent pronunciation of english now this video has been slowdown half its speed to allow clearer listening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkTNH-ZLvSo&NR=1

the interview between zam and AlJazeera was unclear because of his unintelligent pronunciation of english

now this video has been slowdown half its speed to allow clearer listening

]]> By: Libra2 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55304 Libra2 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:49:49 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55304 "it marks the burial of his four-year pledge to hear the truth >>" This PM's pledges and promises are buried the very minute he finishes his speech. I really wonder if he knows what he says. He NEVER honours his promises. He is not a man of his word. “it marks the burial of his four-year pledge to hear the truth >>”
This PM’s pledges and promises are buried the very minute he finishes his speech.
I really wonder if he knows what he says.
He NEVER honours his promises. He is not a man of his word.

]]> By: Libra2 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55303 Libra2 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:46:54 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55303 In our country the government is called His majesty's government and the Opposition is also called His Majesty's Opposition. Being equal before the King gives every citizen equal access to him. Yes, he is pinnacle of justice. If the King does not act on the BERSIH petition then boycott all elections. Why participate when you know your enemy is cheating. In our country the government is called His majesty’s government and the Opposition is also called His Majesty’s Opposition.
Being equal before the King gives every citizen equal access to him.
Yes, he is pinnacle of justice.
If the King does not act on the BERSIH petition then boycott all elections. Why participate when you know your enemy is cheating.

]]> By: thaksan http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55302 thaksan Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:46:03 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55302 “Instead of a rational reply, Nazri went into a political rampage!” I would love to get my hands on that video!!! hahaha!!! “Instead of a rational reply, Nazri went into a political rampage!”

I would love to get my hands on that video!!! hahaha!!!

]]> By: ktteokt http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55278 ktteokt Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:38:21 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55278 I think this is the first in the history of Malaysia where the people actually stood up and protested against the government for being unfair. SYABAS! (RAKYAT) MALAYSIA BENAR-BENAR BOLEH!!! I think this is the first in the history of Malaysia where the people actually stood up and protested against the government for being unfair. SYABAS! (RAKYAT) MALAYSIA BENAR-BENAR BOLEH!!!

]]> By: smeagroo http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55236 smeagroo Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:17:03 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55236 PAk Lah doesnt know his maths lah. That is why till today his mega projects all into billions and he thot that biilions only has 5 zeroes. PAk Lah doesnt know his maths lah. That is why till today his mega projects all into billions and he thot that biilions only has 5 zeroes.

]]> By: LittleBird http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55218 LittleBird Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:46:16 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55218 4000 or 40000? Aiyah..how can you expect them to count correctly when you keep fighting which language to use to teach MAth and science.. maybe they are confused how many zeroes are there in ratus, ribu, thousand hundreds..!! 4000 or 40000? Aiyah..how can you expect them to count correctly when you keep fighting which language to use to teach MAth and science.. maybe they are confused how many zeroes are there in ratus, ribu, thousand hundreds..!!

]]> By: grace http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55216 grace Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:19:49 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55216 Pak Lah, you miss the point ! DYMM Yang Dipertuan Agong is KING OF ALL MALAYSIANS and NOT BN ONLY!!! Like children, we the powerless have no one to turn to for help. BN? utterl;y useless, corrupted to the core! So we have to turn to OUR HEAD, DYMM. If the Thai can turn to their King for help, what is wrong if we do the same here? Pak Lah, you miss the point ! DYMM Yang Dipertuan Agong is KING OF ALL MALAYSIANS and NOT BN ONLY!!! Like children, we the powerless have no one to turn to for help. BN? utterl;y useless, corrupted to the core!
So we have to turn to OUR HEAD, DYMM.

If the Thai can turn to their King for help, what is wrong if we do the same here?

]]> By: devilmaster http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55212 devilmaster Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:58:52 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55212 This is also an acid test for the Yang di Pertuan Agong whether he listens to the call of the rakyat or not. This is also an acid test for the Yang di Pertuan Agong whether he listens to the call of the rakyat or not.

]]> By: Bersih http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55210 Bersih Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:48:05 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55210 [...] no blogging nor demonstrations [...] [...] no blogging nor demonstrations [...]

]]> By: Malaysia Newspaper http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55207 Malaysia Newspaper Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:42:52 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55207 <strong>Why is there more freedom in Pakistan than in Malaysia?...</strong> Bersih CNN loves Pakistani Bloggers, why Malaysia doesn’t love their bloggers? Can you imagine a country without freedom of the press? Take Pakistan: as soon as the media went off the air, CNN starts portraying news it finds on sites of bloggers... Why is there more freedom in Pakistan than in Malaysia?…

Bersih

CNN loves Pakistani Bloggers, why Malaysia doesn’t love their bloggers?
Can you imagine a country without freedom of the press? Take Pakistan: as soon as the media went off the air, CNN starts portraying news it finds on sites of bloggers…

]]> By: Samuel Goh Kim Eng http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55203 Samuel Goh Kim Eng Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:28:46 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55203 Whether or not one can pass the acid test Depends on whose lap the case finally rest When any leader can no longer give one's best Then it's best to retire and take permanent rest (C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com Monday, 12th Nov. 2007. Whether or not one can pass the acid test
Depends on whose lap the case finally rest
When any leader can no longer give one’s best
Then it’s best to retire and take permanent rest

(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Monday, 12th Nov. 2007.

]]> By: Kecek-kecek Tok Mudin 3.0 » Kecek-kecek tentang gelombang kuning http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55193 Kecek-kecek Tok Mudin 3.0 » Kecek-kecek tentang gelombang kuning Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:54:47 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55193 [...] BERSIH petition to King - acid test whether it marks the burial of Abdullah’s 4-yr pledge to hear ... [...] [...] BERSIH petition to King – acid test whether it marks the burial of Abdullah’s 4-yr pledge to hear … [...]

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55184 Jeffrey Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:31:14 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55184 The PM says that “BERSIH gathering and petition were “tantamount to dragging the institution of the monarchy, and the king, into politics”. YB Kit’s counter argument is that it is not true, and the rationale for that is that “The Yang di Pertuan Agong symbolizes the fountain of justice in Malaysia, and it is completely within constitutional norms for Malaysians who are shut out from all avenues of redress to seek justice to appeal to the Yang di Pertuan Agong for intervention”. Bersih’s memorandum to the King addresses basically two issues: 1. Heed the demands of the people for widespread electoral reform (4 suggestions), including the establishment of a Royal Commission to review and reform the electoral system; 2. use his authority under Article 40(2) of the Federal Constitution to overrule any decision to dissolve Parliament as long as these four immediate demands are not met. Basic question : Can the King intervene along lines in Requests 1 & 2 of Bersih? Answer to 1. - Yes because the establishment of Royal Commission under the Commissions Of Enquiry Act 1950 (Revised 1973) is the King’s personal discretion or prerogative which is exercisable if HRH deems fit to do so with or without or even contrary to the government’s advice. Answer to 2 : Constitutionally, correct again, the King’s discretion to dissolve parliament prematurely (before its constitutionally mandated due date) – which involves the corollary of also not agreeing to dissolution as well) is personal and not dependent on the advice of the Executive represented by the PM. But having said that, by CONVENTION (abided here since Merdeka and in all common law jurisdictions), a constitutioonal monarch abides by wishes of the Prime Minister on this issue even if it means the PM could cherry pick the best date to dissolve parliament for election based on circumstances calculated to benefit the incumbent ruling coalition – without first effecting the Election Reforms asked for in Request 1! Next Question: Should the King symbolizing the fountain of justice in Malaysia and at least NOT contravening constitutional provisions or norms exercise personal discretion contrary to the PM’s wishes to deny earlier dissolution of parliament and by so doing jettison convention based on the EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES prevailing at present (esp after disclosure of Lingam Video clip and many other instances of disclosed scandals and corruption) that have made large sections of Rakyat unhappy? The Arguments on the other side Against may be summarized thus : 1. The King is a constitutional (not an absolute) monarch : so why is he taking partisan role (on issue of electoral reform) to side with opposition to disregard the wish of the PM commanding the majority in parliament? 2. In a parliamentary democracy, THE THEORY, at least, is that PM representing majority in Parliament reflects majority of rakyat wish. In contrast the monarch’s position is based on inherited power, wealth, influence and status for life - not on merit or popular public consent or past general election. 3. So is it consistent with at least THE THEORETICAL PRECEPTS OF DEMOCRACY – and SOVEREIGNTY of the people through their elected representatives in Parliament – for a King not to follow convention to listen to the PM’s THEORETICALLY commanding majority in Parliament wishing a dissolution of Parliament just because the Opposition Parties do not want or wish so based on allegations regarding flaws and irregularities of the electoral system? Which leads to the ultimate question – are the Bersih’s demands 1 & 2 “tantamount to dragging the institution of the monarchy, and the king, into politics”? I am sure readers/posters can form their individual opinions based on the above. The PM says that “BERSIH gathering and petition were “tantamount to dragging the institution of the monarchy, and the king, into politics”.

YB Kit’s counter argument is that it is not true, and the rationale for that is that “The Yang di Pertuan Agong symbolizes the fountain of justice in Malaysia, and it is completely within constitutional norms for Malaysians who are shut out from all avenues of redress to seek justice to appeal to the Yang di Pertuan Agong for intervention”.

Bersih’s memorandum to the King addresses basically two issues:

1. Heed the demands of the people for widespread electoral reform (4 suggestions), including the establishment of a Royal Commission to review and reform the electoral system;

2. use his authority under Article 40(2) of the Federal Constitution to overrule any decision to dissolve Parliament as long as these four immediate demands are not met.

Basic question : Can the King intervene along lines in Requests 1 & 2 of Bersih?

Answer to 1. – Yes because the establishment of Royal Commission under the Commissions Of Enquiry Act 1950 (Revised 1973) is the King’s personal discretion or prerogative which is exercisable if HRH deems fit to do so with or without or even contrary to the government’s advice.

Answer to 2 : Constitutionally, correct again, the King’s discretion to dissolve parliament prematurely (before its constitutionally mandated due date) – which involves the corollary of also not agreeing to dissolution as well) is personal and not dependent on the advice of the Executive represented by the PM.

But having said that, by CONVENTION (abided here since Merdeka and in all common law jurisdictions), a constitutioonal monarch abides by wishes of the Prime Minister on this issue even if it means the PM could cherry pick the best date to dissolve parliament for election based on circumstances calculated to benefit the incumbent ruling coalition – without first effecting the Election Reforms asked for in Request 1!

Next Question: Should the King symbolizing the fountain of justice in Malaysia and at least NOT contravening constitutional provisions or norms exercise personal discretion contrary to the PM’s wishes to deny earlier dissolution of parliament and by so doing jettison convention based on the EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES prevailing at present (esp after disclosure of Lingam Video clip and many other instances of disclosed scandals and corruption) that have made large sections of Rakyat unhappy?

The Arguments on the other side Against may be summarized thus :

1. The King is a constitutional (not an absolute) monarch : so why is he taking partisan role (on issue of electoral reform) to side with opposition to disregard the wish of the PM commanding the majority in parliament?

2. In a parliamentary democracy, THE THEORY, at least, is that PM representing majority in Parliament reflects majority of rakyat wish. In contrast the monarch’s position is based on inherited power, wealth, influence and status for life – not on merit or popular public consent or past general election.

3. So is it consistent with at least THE THEORETICAL PRECEPTS OF DEMOCRACY – and SOVEREIGNTY of the people through their elected representatives in Parliament – for a King not to follow convention to listen to the PM’s THEORETICALLY commanding majority in Parliament wishing a dissolution of Parliament just because the Opposition Parties do not want or wish so based on allegations regarding flaws and irregularities of the electoral system?

Which leads to the ultimate question – are the Bersih’s demands 1 & 2 “tantamount to dragging the institution of the monarchy, and the king, into politics”?

I am sure readers/posters can form their individual opinions based on the above.

]]> By: dawsheng http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/comment-page-1/#comment-55182 dawsheng Mon, 12 Nov 2007 06:21:36 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/11/12/bersih-petition-to-king-acid-test-whether-it-marks-the-burial-of-abdullahs-4-yr-pledge-to-hear-the-truth/#comment-55182 "Instead of a rational reply, Nazri went into a political rampage!" Why am I not surprise? “Instead of a rational reply, Nazri went into a political rampage!”

Why am I not surprise?

]]>