The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi should show the world that Malaysia is a democratic country by allowing the peaceful gathering organized by Bersih (Coalition for Free and Fair Elections) at the Dataran Merdeka in Kuala Lumpur tomorrow to submit a memorandum to the Yang di Pertuan Agong on electoral reforms.
Malaysia will become the laughing-stock in the international arena if Malaysians are not even allowed the fundamental and constitutional right provided in the Malaysian Constitution for 50 years to gather peacefully to submit a petition to the Royal Palace, not to advocate any violence or even for an overthrow of the government, but for electoral reforms to ensure that the next general election is clean, free and fair and the election results are not marred by electoral abuses, fraud and other malpractices.
Bersih officials have appealed to the Kuala Lumpur City Chief Police Officer, Datuk Zul Hasnan Najib against the rejection by the Dang Wangi district police chief ACP Mohd Zulkarnain Abdul Rahman for a permit the gathering at Dataran Merdeka.
The Police should be mindful of the important declaration in the Rukunegara that Malaysia is dedicated “to maintaining a democratic way of life”, and as such, it is one of the national objectives which the Police should be duly committed to protect and promote — by allowing the peaceful gathering to submit a petition to the Yang di Pertuan Agong on electoral reforms.
There is no basis whatsoever for the Inspector-General of Police, Tan Sri Musa Hassan to be “doubtful of the intentions” of Bersih or the peaceful character of the gathering as its sole purpose is to submit a petition to the Yang di Pertuan Agong.
I for one can vouch for the bona fide of the peaceful gathering tomorrow and that there is no intention whatsoever by anyone to create any untoward incident.
I call on the Police to work with patriotic Malaysians who are concerned about fulfilling the Rukunegara objective to maintain a meaningful democratic way of life by allowing the peaceful submission of a petition to the Yang di Pertuan Agong to be carried out smoothly without any impediment from any quarter.
The Police has announced that 4,000 police personnel have been mobilized at Dataran Merdeka to keep the peace. This is clearly an over-reaction and over-mobilisation, but with 4,000 police personnel, the police should have all the necessary assurances to ensure that the peaceful gathering to submit the petition to the Yang di Pertuan Agong will indeed be a peaceful one or something is very wrong with the status of law and order in Malaysia.
Let tomorrow be a day where all Malaysians can hold their heads high that democracy in Malaysia is observed in practice and not just in words.

#1 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:30 am
Lee wang yen,
Hello, you also never read my posting. My question to you was: why are you worried whether the gathering is legal or illegal given the circumstances we are in. Your examples about being morally right and legally wrong are grade one stuff. Ok, I will make it very simple for you: I defiantly said that the gathering is NOT illegal, happy now? Your egoism knows no bound. Please, I am not interested in your hollow sophistication.
#2 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:30 am
You’re welcome to criticise anyone’s postings, including those of Jeffrey and mine. But I have shown that many of your arguments are problematic – they frequently jump to conclusions, sometimes without reading or understanding properly what others have said.
We should exercise our freedom responsibly.
#3 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:35 am
Your question stems from your misunderstanding of the point that I was making. Had you understood correctly you wouldn’t ask that question (because in that case you wouldn’t think that I was worried about whether the gathering is illegal or not).
In fact, I HAVE SAID MORE THAN ONCE THAT WHAT MATTERS IS NOT WHETHER THE GATHERING IS ILLEGAL. THE REAL ISSUE THAT MATTERS IS WHETHER IS IS MORALLY JUSTIFIED. HAD you read that posting and others you would not have thought that I was worried about the legality of the gathering.
YOURS is an excellent case in point of STUFFING WORDS INTO PEOPLE’s MOUTH when I have EXPLICITLY say that THE LEGALITY OF THE GATHERING IS NOT THE ISSUE.
#4 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:36 am
dawsheng, I have left you alone thus far. If you want to take side, you better know the full story first. I don’t label others stupid and talking cock for nothing.
#5 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:40 am
Limkamput:
‘Hello, you also never read my posting. My question to you was: why are you worried whether the gathering is legal or illegal given the circumstances we are in.’
Why think that I didn’t read your posting? Because I didn’t respond to your question? Come on, the fact that I didn’t respond to this question was simple: THIS IS A QUESTION THAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ASKED HAD YOU READ MY POSTING WHERE I SAID THAT THE LEGALITY OF THE GATHERING DID NOT MATTER. I DIDN’T RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION BECAUSE IT SHOULDN’T HAVE ARISEN IN THE FIRST PLACE, HAD YOU CONDUCTED THE DISCUSSION RESPONSIBLY – READ BEFORE RESPONDING.
#6 by Jong on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:42 am
Apa ini, like cartoon here lah. Hey stop quarelling please!
#7 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:49 am
Limkamput said:
‘Ok, I will make it very simple for you: I defiantly said that the gathering is NOT illegal, happy now?’
This shows that you’re not interested in a rational discussion over this issue. In a rational discussion, we won’t say things like ‘I defiantly insist on this, happy now?’ In a rational discussion, we say things like ‘I don’t agree with you. I still think that X is Y, because P, Q, R….You have raised, L, M, N, but I think these suggestions are problematic because of E, F, G…’
If you just want to win an argument. OK, you win every point. If you just want to insist on your view no matter what. OK, all your views are correct. HAPPY NOW?
#8 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:53 am
Dear Jong,
Neither am I a lawyer. I’m a philosopher.
#9 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:57 am
When you don’t understand other’s argument or can’t engage rationally with it, just say that the other person is showcasing his ‘hollow sophistication’. What a cheap way to win an argument.
#10 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 2:59 am
Please go back to the beginning and read thru’ again what you wrote. If you are happy that what you tried to convey have been completely misunderstood, so be it. I am no longer interested in your twists and turns. But you will not hear the last of me. I will continue to do what I have been doing. There are too much of baloney here that has gone on unchallenged. If you think you are rational and refined, I urge you to think again.
#11 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:00 am
Hisham said: ‘Whatever you want to think and say about it, I will defiantly say that the kris ritual is right and will defiantly do it year after year until you get desensitised. Happy now?
This is a spirit of irrationality par excellent.
#12 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:01 am
A person who thinks he is humble means he is not humble. A person who says he is a philosopher, my goodness, … what is he?
#13 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:06 am
An undergraduate student studying mathematics in my university (University of Cambridge) is called ‘mathematician’. Those studying BA in philosophy are called ‘philosophers’. The term philosopher is not a self-imposed term. Given that I’m a PhD student in philosophy of science, my department, professors, and friends call me a philosopher, just like they call my friends who study mathematics a mathematician.
You just like to attack people without taking fact into consideration.
#14 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:08 am
You can attack Dr. XXX (MBBS) if she says that she is intelligent. But you would be very irrational to attack her just because she calls herself a doctor.
#15 by dawsheng on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:18 am
“dawsheng, I have left you alone thus far. If you want to take side, you better know the full story first. I don’t label others stupid and talking cock for nothing.”
OK, fair enough! But out of curiousity, if you don’t label others stupid and talking cock for nothing then what it is for?
#16 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:22 am
Hmm, a Cambridge Phd student in philosophy. So what are you trying to impress. This is precisely what i meant earlier – engaging in polemics that are irrelevant and inconsequential. Honestly, can you expect everyone to knows your Cambridge tradition? To study a BA in mathematics called himself a mathematician is too much for me. So also is a BA in philosophy. May be Cambridge is special, or may be many of these institutions are just living on past glory.
#17 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:23 am
The act of calling oneself humble is itself not a humble act. Therefore, the act of stating that oneself is humble defeats that statement itself. Such statements are called ‘self-referentially incoherent statements’.
However, the act of calling oneself a philosopher (even if it is a self-glorifying term rather than a label for a professional status) does not involve any self-defeat. ‘Philosopher’ means ‘lover of wisdom’. One who says that she is a lover of wisdom does not mean that she is not a lover of wisdom.
So you’re comparing apples with oranges.
#18 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:25 am
Dawsheng, the story is too long to tell. It is not related to today’s blog. So i beg your understanding on this.
#19 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:25 am
A few days ago Cambridge was ranked 2 in the world by THES. Past glory?
#20 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:26 am
Another trick: when you can’t win or rationally engage with an argument, just say that it is irrelevant and inconsequential
#21 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:31 am
When you attack someone based on what you don’t know, can you defend yourself by saying ‘can you expect everyone to know …’?
No one expects you to know anything. It is actually quite simple. When you don’t know why someone calls himself X, don’t attack LAH! When you want to attack, make sure you get the fact right first.
#22 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:33 am
No, I am not comparing apples and oranges. Your argument is in fact oxymoron. So you are a lover of wisdom because you claim you are a philosopher. But how do you know the “wisdom†that you love is indeed wisdom.
#23 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:36 am
that is because you have stupid assumption. i reasonable implied that you can’t expect everyone to know everything, just like how you argued earlier.
#24 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:39 am
The discussion is not meant to impress anyone. The discussion is meant to show that your accusation of Jeffrey is wide of the mark because your comments have overlooked his careful considerations. I have not used any technical philosophical terms or theories here. I have just been trying to argue plainly and rationally that Jeffrey’s point is not as stupid as what you said it was.
#25 by dawsheng on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:39 am
Limkamput, I also beg your undestanding that we all have different views, and when you disagree you can beg to differ, politely. Some of us here may not be as smart as you, and you shouldn’t be surprise about that. You know what I mean?
#26 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:39 am
what make you think that you are winning. please don’t think too highly of yourself.
#27 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:43 am
OK, I give up. You’re not interested in rational discussion. I humbly bow out. You’ve won every point. Congratulations! You should be a Harvard professor. I hope I can do a post-doc research with you in a few months’ time.
#28 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:44 am
as i have explained to dawsheng, my earlier posting to jeffrey was in response to our earlier debate. It was never meant to be this rude.
#29 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:49 am
What I can say, with my experience of teaching undergraduate students in Cambridge, is that if you argue this way in your paper, you’ll fail.
#30 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:49 am
please dont think too highly of cambridge, oxford and harvard ok. JK is also from oxford. I am just a kampung boy, had my early education in an attap chinese school, and later manage to study in one local (may be to you) no standard university. happy now
#31 by Lurker on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:56 am
Hey Lee Wang Yen: Chill out. As a scholar, you should show some humility, and this is an advice from a full prof.
#32 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 4:40 am
Hello, You can’t fail me. You are not my master, I am not your student. Typical ego.
#33 by lakshy on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 6:04 am
limkamput, I agree with your point on the gathering. When it comes to Jeffrey’s postings, I just skip them, for my own reasons. Thats my choice.
But I think you guys arguing here are digressing from the main point, which is the brave act of many malaysians who behaved totally responsibly and did no damage. i cant say the same for the police.
Lets allow others to commend and praise them.
#34 by lakshy on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 6:24 am
How about having another Yellow gathering in Ipoh and invite His Highnesses Raja Nazrin, and Sultan Azlan Shah?
And we give our memorandum from the rakyat to them? They have been the most vocal about the state of our judiciary etc. Lets keep up the momentum!
#35 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 7:21 am
You know what Limkamput is gonna say to you, Lakshy? “Stop talking cock!” Of course, he’s not gonna say that now, since I’ve already said it.
#36 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 7:24 am
For lovers of “talk cock” please go here http://talkingcock.com/
#37 by wtf2 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 7:25 am
thinks the most important is to have action then inaction.
There are consequences to both – one means you like something to change, other means you can accept status quo. the means to achieve the change may or may not be gazetted but it’s always the first step
so everybody take a deep breath and set ego aside and consider…..
#38 by k1980 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 8:54 am
But why didn’t you worrk for free and fair elections when you were Deputy PM, mr black-eye?
http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=071110130821.eu72j5fj&cat=france
“We want free and fair elections and clearly Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi and his cabinet are complicit to the crime of cheating Malaysians from having free and fair elections,”
#39 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 9:09 am
I have to congratulate Bersih for yesterday. The rain, the massive action againts it, and they pulled it off.
I also have to congratulate Malaysians who participate. I am a cynical one and to see Malaysian come together and peacefully voice their opinion, even if its with leadership of historically tainted Anwar, gives hopes that Malaysian still hold certain principle dear. It gives one hope for the future if not our generation then at some point.
Coming after the UMNO GA where they still pandered to narrow and small minded interest, today gathering says a lot about Malaysian indepedence from political cynics like the likes of KJ.
Its not the likes of KJ and Hissamuddin this country future belongs but those who have the courage yesterday…
#40 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 9:29 am
It’s 8.25 pm here in the U.S. Malaysia made prime time news on FOX at 8.00 pm – with Anwar Ibrahim in it.
Had there been a public demonstration without the FRU and their water cannons and tear gas, it would not have made the news – let alone prime time.
But thanks to Abdullah Badawi and his gang, the world saw and took notice of what happened on November 10.
#41 by mendela on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 10:02 am
Prime times news at Fox in USA?
Anyone has the video footage?
Let’s share it to all Malaysians, including Bodowi!
Guess he will suffer from heart attack after viewing it…
#42 by Jong on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 11:18 am
Mr Duplicity was challenged by the rakyat, lost all credibility. He is now a great liability to UMNO, …finished!!!
But do we see any “batangs” left in UMNO, able to stand up to him and his No.2 ? Maybe they are all in the cemetery!
#43 by dawsheng on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 11:21 am
“But thanks to Abdullah Badawi and his gang, the world saw and took notice of what happened on November 10.”
But Bersih haven’t achieved anything yet, so far they have only successfully handed over the petition to the Agong. But what we can expect from the Agong next or should we expect the Agong to do something after ten of thousands of Malaysians braved the storm just to sent him a message? If nothing came out of yesterday’s rally? Are we going to the street once more? Are we then going to appeal and force the Agong to do something? Maybe Agong felt 100,000 are too few? Should Bersih organize another rally which involves 300,000 or 500,000 people or more through out the country? A week from now we should know the truth about Agong.
#44 by dawsheng on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 11:23 am
Another rally with millions of Malaysians participating should me more appropriate. Can we achieve it? I think we can.
#45 by Godfather on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 11:33 am
Yes, I think we can get ever bigger crowds. Let’s do another one in January when the thieves raise the petrol prices. Then another one when they raise the tolls. Then another one when they appoint a dubious Chief Justice. Heck, we have plenty of reasons to repeat our peaceful marches.
#46 by Godfather on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 11:34 am
The mainstream press is so pathetic. No reports or pictures of the gathering from the English and Malay papers. The Star quotes the police as saying that there were 4,000 protesters. This Hitlerian approach will end in tears for the BN thieves.
#47 by bra888 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 1:34 pm
Get your news here
http://www.youtube.com/user/daulattuanku
CNN
BBC
They heard us!
#48 by bra888 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 1:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6cVKHaVKe0&NR=1
#49 by bra888 on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 3:34 pm
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/10/malaysia.protests/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
#50 by MalaysiandeVoice on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 10:05 pm
This is so pity! As a malaysian we have lost our right and voice! where is the justise??!!!