Comments on: Malaysia should support suspension of Myanmar from ASEAN/UN if there is another 1988 bloodbath in Burma http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/ for Malaysia Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:31:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: greatstuff http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49561 greatstuff Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:40:57 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49561 China, Thailand, and India hold the key to pushing the brutal Generals in the right direction. These countries need to look beyone their self-interests from the massive investments they have in Burma, especially China and Thailand, and put the needs of the poor down-trodden population as the number one priority. As for the weak minded ASEAN body, the time for getting into the bed with the fascist generals is over- isn't democracy what most (except Thailand which was never a colony) of ASEAN nations fought for in the first place, most cases bloodily to gain Independence for each of their nations since 1947? ASEAN has been far too "limp" and a bit of an embarassment on their ideals- too many illicit interests, isn't that the real reason they haven't gone far enough with these ghastly generals of Burma! China, Thailand, and India hold the key to pushing the brutal Generals in the right direction. These countries need to look beyone their self-interests from the massive investments they have in Burma, especially China and Thailand, and put the needs of the poor down-trodden population as the number one priority. As for the weak minded ASEAN body, the time for getting into the bed with the fascist generals is over- isn’t democracy what most (except Thailand which was never a colony) of ASEAN nations fought for in the first place, most cases bloodily to gain Independence for each of their nations since 1947? ASEAN has been far too “limp” and a bit of an embarassment on their ideals- too many illicit interests, isn’t that the real reason they haven’t gone far enough with these ghastly generals of Burma!

]]> By: digard http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49560 digard Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:37:51 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49560 Since the silly idea of trying to talk to soldiers (generals) while they are firing live ammunition at demonstrators has ebbed down, here my take of it. China should step forward. If Hamid flew to Rangoon, and placed himself in front of the demonstrators, they might shoot at him as well. But not so if PRC took the initiative and sent their foreign minister. He could easily touch down in Rangoon, and drive to the generals first, and then to Aung San Suu Kyi. And the problem would be solved. He'd tell the generals to take cover and arrange with Aung San Suu Kyi for a continuous flow of gas from Burma to China, in exchange for kicking the generals' backs. Then he could fly home and have avoided more bloodshed and at the same time cemented China's position as one of the leading powers on this globe. Since the silly idea of trying to talk to soldiers (generals) while they are firing live ammunition at demonstrators has ebbed down, here my take of it.

China should step forward. If Hamid flew to Rangoon, and placed himself in front of the demonstrators, they might shoot at him as well.
But not so if PRC took the initiative and sent their foreign minister. He could easily touch down in Rangoon, and drive to the generals first, and then to Aung San Suu Kyi. And the problem would be solved.
He’d tell the generals to take cover and arrange with Aung San Suu Kyi for a continuous flow of gas from Burma to China, in exchange for kicking the generals’ backs.
Then he could fly home and have avoided more bloodshed and at the same time cemented China’s position as one of the leading powers on this globe.

]]> By: HJ Angus http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49556 HJ Angus Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:10:06 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49556 Don't think the BN wants the street protests to succeed as that could trigger off demos in our own capital. I heard on the BBC news that Singapore has the banking facilities of the top generals as so maybe the USA may persuade them to freeze those accounts. Don’t think the BN wants the street protests to succeed as that could trigger off demos in our own capital.

I heard on the BBC news that Singapore has the banking facilities of the top generals as so maybe the USA may persuade them to freeze those accounts.

]]> By: megaman http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49555 megaman Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:08:08 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49555 ASEAN membership is nothing but a PR effort by the Myanmar military junta aimed at convincing the Myanmar local population that it is a legitimate government recognized by the region. The military junta is not serious in creating a true nation and country. The policy of self-isolation only serves to further their own interests which is more plunder of the country natural resources like oil, precious gemstones (rubies and emerald), timber and even narcotics (which is illegal and unofficial). The Tatmadaw generals are only interested in deepening their pockets and increasing their stranglehold on the country. ASEAN is really naive and stupid to include Myanmar as its member as it is very clear that the ruling junta has no intention at all to be a responsible member country. It is time to remove Myanmar from the membership list to give the ruling military junta more pressure and to return some credibility back to ASEAN. The military junta MUST STEP DOWN. *period* NO external military force should be used. No more Iraq or Afghanistan here. External military actions would only create more hardship and problems. NO economic sanctions should be used. The Myanmar people are already starving. Further economic sanctions would make the starvation worse. NO constructive engagement should be used. The military junta do not respond nor recognize constructive engagement. A stronger more definitive response is needed. YES military sanctions. Prevent military arms and supplies to reach the military junta so that they can't use force against the people. YES peacekeeping missions and food aid. Get UN peacekeepers in. Prevent the military junta from bullying the people. Get food to the starving. YES to more peaceful protests and free Aung San Suu Kyi. As long as the Myanmar society and people are dissatisfied, let them march and protest until they get the change that they want. The Myanmar military junta is an ILLEGITIMATE government that is created by a military COUP DE TAT. An ILLEGITIMATE government must not be allowed to exist and must not be recognized at all. Enough is enough. ASEAN membership is nothing but a PR effort by the Myanmar military junta aimed at convincing the Myanmar local population that it is a legitimate government recognized by the region.

The military junta is not serious in creating a true nation and country. The policy of self-isolation only serves to further their own interests which is more plunder of the country natural resources like oil, precious gemstones (rubies and emerald), timber and even narcotics (which is illegal and unofficial). The Tatmadaw generals are only interested in deepening their pockets and increasing their stranglehold on the country.

ASEAN is really naive and stupid to include Myanmar as its member as it is very clear that the ruling junta has no intention at all to be a responsible member country. It is time to remove Myanmar from the membership list to give the ruling military junta more pressure and to return some credibility back to ASEAN.

The military junta MUST STEP DOWN. *period*

NO external military force should be used.
No more Iraq or Afghanistan here. External military actions would only create more hardship and problems.

NO economic sanctions should be used.
The Myanmar people are already starving. Further economic sanctions would make the starvation worse.

NO constructive engagement should be used.
The military junta do not respond nor recognize constructive engagement. A stronger more definitive response is needed.

YES military sanctions.
Prevent military arms and supplies to reach the military junta so that they can’t use force against the people.

YES peacekeeping missions and food aid.
Get UN peacekeepers in. Prevent the military junta from bullying the people. Get food to the starving.

YES to more peaceful protests and free Aung San Suu Kyi.
As long as the Myanmar society and people are dissatisfied, let them march and protest until they get the change that they want.

The Myanmar military junta is an ILLEGITIMATE government that is created by a military COUP DE TAT. An ILLEGITIMATE government must not be allowed to exist and must not be recognized at all.
Enough is enough.

]]> By: qiqi http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49554 qiqi Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:43:09 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49554 '...government of the people, by the people, for the people' - Abraham Lincoln ‘…government of the people, by the people, for the people’ - Abraham Lincoln

]]> By: Godfather http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49553 Godfather Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:26:37 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49553 ASEAN is just a grouping of police states - it's a matter of varying degree, but the general traits are state control of the mainstream press, suppression of democracy and transparency, and using intimidatory tactics on the opposition. These people are cut from the same cloth. ASEAN is just a grouping of police states - it’s a matter of varying degree, but the general traits are state control of the mainstream press, suppression of democracy and transparency, and using intimidatory tactics on the opposition.

These people are cut from the same cloth.

]]> By: Bigjoe http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49551 Bigjoe Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:56:50 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49551 Its time to just admit that ASEAN non-inteference policy in each other is limited. Like many of our policies, the non-interference policies worked opportunistically. It does not work anymore. As a long term policies, the only way for ASEAN to move forward is to agree on a common ever higher standards of rules and policies and hold each other to it. I say lets interfere in Burma and send troops in... Its time to just admit that ASEAN non-inteference policy in each other is limited. Like many of our policies, the non-interference policies worked opportunistically. It does not work anymore. As a long term policies, the only way for ASEAN to move forward is to agree on a common ever higher standards of rules and policies and hold each other to it.

I say lets interfere in Burma and send troops in…

]]> By: zack http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49544 zack Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:13:47 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49544 Like Ghandhi and Martin Luther King ..... civil disobedience is next maybe? Like Ghandhi and Martin Luther King ….. civil disobedience is next maybe?

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49539 Jeffrey Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:59:51 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/09/27/malaysia-should-support-suspension-of-myanmar-from-aseanun-if-there-is-another-1988-bloodbath-in-burma/#comment-49539 Hamid said in the UN that Malaysia does not believe in imposing economic sanctions (imposed by Bush) against Myanmar as this will not affect the targeted group but will usually hurt ordinary citizens more; he said any hard or aggressive action would be counter-productive at this stage. So what’s the solution? Constructive engagement? What results have ASEAN’s policy of constructive engagement brought? The last time in June 2006 Hamid went to Myanmar ASEAN envoy, he was snubbed by the ruling generals, denied access to detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi and Hamid himself said in press statement that ““I think they have treated us shabbily….There is lack of confidence in Myanmar on ASEAN; that Myanmar did not want ASEAN to play a bridging role. They don’t see fit for ASEAN to meet Aung San Suu Kyi. I have gone to Myanmar but they did not allow me to meet Aung San Suu Kyi and other political leaders..That is the way they deal with us”, he said. In context, Hamid’s remarks “We think the best way of resolving the issue is to get the constitutional process on track, to get the reconciliation going” are rightly described by YB Kit as “platitudes”. What kind of “constitutional process” can one put on track with Myanmar’s military junta who are basically gangsters enriched by narcotic trade ? Whilst it is true that ASEAN is principally an economic bloc concentrating on concerns over economics, trade and development in the region, it being part of international community, however, cannot however ignore international standards and norms relating to human rights and freedom and the legitimate demands of the Burmese people to self determination via democracy. If Myanmar leaders have proven themselves gangsters why continue to mollycoddle them within ASEAN group – just expel (not just suspend) it from the grouping? Perhaps the reason why ASEAN countries would not take a strong stance is that the governments of its member countries are not very much less authoritarian and would have also clamped down on protest marches by dissidents in their own countries.... Hamid said in the UN that Malaysia does not believe in imposing economic sanctions (imposed by Bush) against Myanmar as this will not affect the targeted group but will usually hurt ordinary citizens more; he said any hard or aggressive action would be counter-productive at this stage.

So what’s the solution? Constructive engagement? What results have ASEAN’s policy of constructive engagement brought?

The last time in June 2006 Hamid went to Myanmar ASEAN envoy, he was snubbed by the ruling generals, denied access to detained opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi and Hamid himself said in press statement that ““I think they have treated us shabbily….There is lack of confidence in Myanmar on ASEAN; that Myanmar did not want ASEAN to play a bridging role. They don’t see fit for ASEAN to meet Aung San Suu Kyi. I have gone to Myanmar but they did not allow me to meet Aung San Suu Kyi and other political leaders..That is the way they deal with us”, he said.

In context, Hamid’s remarks “We think the best way of resolving the issue is to get the constitutional process on track, to get the reconciliation going” are rightly described by YB Kit as “platitudes”. What kind of “constitutional process” can one put on track with Myanmar’s military junta who are basically gangsters enriched by narcotic trade ?

Whilst it is true that ASEAN is principally an economic bloc concentrating on concerns over economics, trade and development in the region, it being part of international community, however, cannot however ignore international standards and norms relating to human rights and freedom and the legitimate demands of the Burmese people to self determination via democracy.

If Myanmar leaders have proven themselves gangsters why continue to mollycoddle them within ASEAN group – just expel (not just suspend) it from the grouping? Perhaps the reason why ASEAN countries would not take a strong stance is that the governments of its member countries are not very much less authoritarian and would have also clamped down on protest marches by dissidents in their own countries….

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