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	<title>Comments on: Great letdown - Cabinet failure to reaffirm Malaysia is a secular and not Islamic state</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/</link>
	<description>for Malaysia</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ktteokt</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-48473</link>
		<dc:creator>ktteokt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-48473</guid>
		<description>Only UMNO Islam is fit for Malaysia, not PAS Islam? So are there two sets of Islamic doctrines or two QURANS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only UMNO Islam is fit for Malaysia, not PAS Islam? So are there two sets of Islamic doctrines or two QURANS?</p>
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		<title>By: rajanjohn</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-41402</link>
		<dc:creator>rajanjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 04:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-41402</guid>
		<description>Islamic state..well try implementing thats and see "WHO's gonna lose out or convert the most!Visit clubs with Casino/Slot-Machines you'll see who's the majorities!Judi adalah haram! Go to high/mid class Night-Clubs/Karaoke and check out the patrons..who actually enjoys the GRO's to the fullest.. then wait to see which "lembu" pays the bill?? Don't la Gali lubang sendiri..let's be  a secular Nation/country and we enjoy together!Don't la be Hippocrates..malu la ABG Oi..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Islamic state..well try implementing thats and see &#8220;WHO&#8217;s gonna lose out or convert the most!Visit clubs with Casino/Slot-Machines you&#8217;ll see who&#8217;s the majorities!Judi adalah haram! Go to high/mid class Night-Clubs/Karaoke and check out the patrons..who actually enjoys the GRO&#8217;s to the fullest.. then wait to see which &#8220;lembu&#8221; pays the bill?? Don&#8217;t la Gali lubang sendiri..let&#8217;s be  a secular Nation/country and we enjoy together!Don&#8217;t la be Hippocrates..malu la ABG Oi..</p>
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		<title>By: mangodurian</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40758</link>
		<dc:creator>mangodurian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40758</guid>
		<description>Jeffrey's analysis and stark description of the situation as it is today hits it right on the dot. For a long while, PAS has been the clear bogeyman, but lurking within our own house lies an even greater evil. Those of us even born post-57 have seen it happening, but had always been a bit complacent about the creeping slowly-but-surely tactic of certain quarters to impose what they feel is, and should be completely theirs - this land we call home.

Although legally declared as secular, laws can always be changed. Unlike the developed and structured nature of change towards independence that we were blessed with by the British culture (our independence forefathers were all British-trained to be gentlemen), such will not be the case for this 'Islamic State' concept.

Those who were born after 1957 are taking over - and they are not your old British gentlemen. 

For the last 50 years, we've seen it - mosques ever 1 km, denying non-Malay/muslim establishments, no license for entertainment and non-halal joints, Datuk for menial Malaysia-boleh achievements, Revathi, Lina Joy ...

With the Lina Joy landmark case, I think those in the legal circles can see that it has become safe enough for those non-inclusive  fundamentalists to become bolder and bolder.

It is happening - little twists of the truth here and there, and if you repeat and suppress the opposing view enough - it will one day become the truth. With enough statements like that, it will easy one day to twist the label from 'secular nation with Islam as official religion' to 'Islamic majority nation' to 'Islamic state with Malaysian characteristics' to finally full 'Islamic theocracy'. 

PAS don't need to fight anymore. They will merge with UMNO. By then MCA, MIC, Gerakan's population will be so small (note the falling birthrates of non-Malays) that their membership in BN don't matter anymore. They can all defect and become DAP-MCA-MIC .... and it wouldn't matter.

The final Victory will be achieved. 

MCA and MIC ... this is your moment of truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey&#8217;s analysis and stark description of the situation as it is today hits it right on the dot. For a long while, PAS has been the clear bogeyman, but lurking within our own house lies an even greater evil. Those of us even born post-57 have seen it happening, but had always been a bit complacent about the creeping slowly-but-surely tactic of certain quarters to impose what they feel is, and should be completely theirs - this land we call home.</p>
<p>Although legally declared as secular, laws can always be changed. Unlike the developed and structured nature of change towards independence that we were blessed with by the British culture (our independence forefathers were all British-trained to be gentlemen), such will not be the case for this &#8216;Islamic State&#8217; concept.</p>
<p>Those who were born after 1957 are taking over - and they are not your old British gentlemen. </p>
<p>For the last 50 years, we&#8217;ve seen it - mosques ever 1 km, denying non-Malay/muslim establishments, no license for entertainment and non-halal joints, Datuk for menial Malaysia-boleh achievements, Revathi, Lina Joy &#8230;</p>
<p>With the Lina Joy landmark case, I think those in the legal circles can see that it has become safe enough for those non-inclusive  fundamentalists to become bolder and bolder.</p>
<p>It is happening - little twists of the truth here and there, and if you repeat and suppress the opposing view enough - it will one day become the truth. With enough statements like that, it will easy one day to twist the label from &#8217;secular nation with Islam as official religion&#8217; to &#8216;Islamic majority nation&#8217; to &#8216;Islamic state with Malaysian characteristics&#8217; to finally full &#8216;Islamic theocracy&#8217;. </p>
<p>PAS don&#8217;t need to fight anymore. They will merge with UMNO. By then MCA, MIC, Gerakan&#8217;s population will be so small (note the falling birthrates of non-Malays) that their membership in BN don&#8217;t matter anymore. They can all defect and become DAP-MCA-MIC &#8230;. and it wouldn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>The final Victory will be achieved. </p>
<p>MCA and MIC &#8230; this is your moment of truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Anak_Permyjaya</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40441</link>
		<dc:creator>Anak_Permyjaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40441</guid>
		<description>If they want it to be islamic state or country, do we have says? We're really the outsiders in their eyes, who comes from India or China long time before to snatch their wealthness (when they failed to compete). 

Now the only group of ppl who have the right to voice out is the orang asli, since they're here before or together with the Malays........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they want it to be islamic state or country, do we have says? We&#8217;re really the outsiders in their eyes, who comes from India or China long time before to snatch their wealthness (when they failed to compete). </p>
<p>Now the only group of ppl who have the right to voice out is the orang asli, since they&#8217;re here before or together with the Malays&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: OverseaMalaysian</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40344</link>
		<dc:creator>OverseaMalaysian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 04:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40344</guid>
		<description>Is Malaysia a secular or Islamic state? I don't know, I was not involved. I was sleeping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Malaysia a secular or Islamic state? I don&#8217;t know, I was not involved. I was sleeping.</p>
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		<title>By: zioburosky13</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40282</link>
		<dc:creator>zioburosky13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 01:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40282</guid>
		<description>Tunku will rolled in his grave if he heard such news. Malaysia is like US.
The malay is the white people.
The Chinese/india is the black people.
The Indon is like the mexican. 
The 'orang asli' is like the american indian. 

See the odds?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tunku will rolled in his grave if he heard such news. Malaysia is like US.<br />
The malay is the white people.<br />
The Chinese/india is the black people.<br />
The Indon is like the mexican.<br />
The &#8216;orang asli&#8217; is like the american indian. </p>
<p>See the odds?</p>
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		<title>By: pwcheng</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40038</link>
		<dc:creator>pwcheng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 05:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40038</guid>
		<description>We are definitely becoming an autocratic state. The top leaders can only say anything they like and not anybody else even up to an extent that it will create chaos in the country. In this country the 2 top leaders are Malays and going by the recent political scenario, there is not much hope for the other races. We have now a sleeping leader who perpetually is on honeymoon follow by a distinguished ultra [deleted].

    Only the leaders can talk about this and not anybody else and media banned from publishing anything on it. By doing that they had already admitted that it is a sensitive issue and under the law anyone who committed this has committed a crime under the Sedition Act which is created by UMNO itself.  And right now the person who has committed this crime is the same person who not too long ago said that "nobody is above the law". 

         The Question is why is the police keeping so silent on this. Obviously they are biased judging from the many incidents recently, one of which is the Nathaniel Tan incident. UMNO and the police had jointly created two set of laws in this country. 
     
    What has Kofi Annan got to say about this? Lets jointly tell the world the truth and nothing but the truth instead of letting these [deleted] lie without the wink of any eye. Let the world judge that Malaysia has a gathering of pariah leaders who has no shame to tear he country apart all for the sake of power and money. Tierry Rommel has proven himself right all the way he should not have aplogized [deleted]. I am sure the majority of the Malays ,especially the moderate Malays are not game for tearing the country apart because of  religious issues .

       The only way out is for the people power to agitate so as to kick all these half past six and sleeping politicians out and let the Monarch be the supreme of the country or state. Obviously we have more respect for them than those blood thirsty politicians. Like in Thailand when you have the monarch support, we will be able to throw them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are definitely becoming an autocratic state. The top leaders can only say anything they like and not anybody else even up to an extent that it will create chaos in the country. In this country the 2 top leaders are Malays and going by the recent political scenario, there is not much hope for the other races. We have now a sleeping leader who perpetually is on honeymoon follow by a distinguished ultra [deleted].</p>
<p>    Only the leaders can talk about this and not anybody else and media banned from publishing anything on it. By doing that they had already admitted that it is a sensitive issue and under the law anyone who committed this has committed a crime under the Sedition Act which is created by UMNO itself.  And right now the person who has committed this crime is the same person who not too long ago said that &#8220;nobody is above the law&#8221;. </p>
<p>         The Question is why is the police keeping so silent on this. Obviously they are biased judging from the many incidents recently, one of which is the Nathaniel Tan incident. UMNO and the police had jointly created two set of laws in this country. </p>
<p>    What has Kofi Annan got to say about this? Lets jointly tell the world the truth and nothing but the truth instead of letting these [deleted] lie without the wink of any eye. Let the world judge that Malaysia has a gathering of pariah leaders who has no shame to tear he country apart all for the sake of power and money. Tierry Rommel has proven himself right all the way he should not have aplogized [deleted]. I am sure the majority of the Malays ,especially the moderate Malays are not game for tearing the country apart because of  religious issues .</p>
<p>       The only way out is for the people power to agitate so as to kick all these half past six and sleeping politicians out and let the Monarch be the supreme of the country or state. Obviously we have more respect for them than those blood thirsty politicians. Like in Thailand when you have the monarch support, we will be able to throw them out.</p>
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		<title>By: comodo</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40015</link>
		<dc:creator>comodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-40015</guid>
		<description>Agree completely with sheriff singh  comments
"Call it whatever you will but the reality is that the Islamic way of life is becoming more invasive, intrusive and prevalent in our daily lives. Even the secular courts now shy away from any case that has been given some Ã¢â‚¬Å“IslamicÃ¢â‚¬Â flavour, and they quickly bow to the Syariah. Government policies and administration is now more religiously dictated. The education process has taken a new direction. So has dressing and behaviour in general. What is there more to say?

But the sad thing is that these trends seems to be irreversible. Once given or put in place, it is difficult to change the trend or to take away. Just like NEP.
Who now dares go against the mullahs even if they are wrong?
So it is likely that full Islamisation will be in place in the next 50 years."

What can be done??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree completely with sheriff singh  comments<br />
&#8220;Call it whatever you will but the reality is that the Islamic way of life is becoming more invasive, intrusive and prevalent in our daily lives. Even the secular courts now shy away from any case that has been given some Ã¢â‚¬Å“IslamicÃ¢â‚¬Â flavour, and they quickly bow to the Syariah. Government policies and administration is now more religiously dictated. The education process has taken a new direction. So has dressing and behaviour in general. What is there more to say?</p>
<p>But the sad thing is that these trends seems to be irreversible. Once given or put in place, it is difficult to change the trend or to take away. Just like NEP.<br />
Who now dares go against the mullahs even if they are wrong?<br />
So it is likely that full Islamisation will be in place in the next 50 years.&#8221;</p>
<p>What can be done??</p>
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		<title>By: witoutprejudice</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-39999</link>
		<dc:creator>witoutprejudice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/07/19/great-letdown-cabinet-failure-to-reaffirm-malaysia-is-a-secular-and-not-islamic-state/#comment-39999</guid>
		<description>ENDANGERED HORNBILL,

i agreed with you that "...TM Raja Nazrin should be the next Deputy PM and Minister of Defence. Najib should just step aside for a greater Man. Actually, Raja Nazrin has more sense in him than all the CAbinet members combined including poor Pak LAh...."

our gomen is half-past-six, 3rd world mentality and full of nonsense? i will not surprised if suddenly bodowi sent a resignation letter from  kangaroo land [deleted] ??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ENDANGERED HORNBILL,</p>
<p>i agreed with you that &#8220;&#8230;TM Raja Nazrin should be the next Deputy PM and Minister of Defence. Najib should just step aside for a greater Man. Actually, Raja Nazrin has more sense in him than all the CAbinet members combined including poor Pak LAh&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>our gomen is half-past-six, 3rd world mentality and full of nonsense? i will not surprised if suddenly bodowi sent a resignation letter from  kangaroo land [deleted] ??</p>
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