Please inform JAWI Fellows to buck up. Firstly this people no bloody brain. When praying must be silence not open the speaker loud and make noise i,e in the morning people sleeping and Taman area too loud and concentrate tv and other programmes
Jawi official no other works do not worry what other race place. Goverment should consider to give the Jawi fellow some work. to catch thief,robbers, snatch thief, patrol Taman area and look for criminals. Too free that is why this uncivilised animals creating problem.

KS R

Oh by the way, for all those factories that have tokongs and deities, watch out!

I know of chemical factories that supply chemicals for water treatment purposes that have datokong in their premises. So I guess that all the water used by muslims for ablutions all these years are not halal. And all the water they drink are not halal too!

Sheesh! Its tough being a muslim.

Even the cover of antibiotic capsules bought and distributed by the government hospitals are made of animal gelatin….not kosher or halal. And thats bought by the government! Wonder whether the muslims can sue our gevernment for feeding them non halal medicines?

This has been happening for years now! Neighborhoods are being turned into Muslim only neighborhoods or non-Malay non-Muslim neighborhoods, rich middle class neighborhoods and working class neighborhoods - the former not necessarily overlapping with the latter, and to the extent that it does not, it is a class struggle.

Except that in Malaysia they are playing politics with religion, and rightly so, so they claim because it is there in the Constitution - written out in stone for all to see and appreciate its glory and its power.

June 30th, 2007 at 03: 42.56
I think enough is enough.Those Malaysian non-Malays who can do so, leave Malaysia for good. Especially if you have businesses and assets, sell them off and LEAVE. If these Taliban Nazis want to create a failed state, we shall oblige and leave them to wallow in their misery. The problem is occuring because mainly the Malays themselves are not speaking out against this extremism. The cure to this problem is to actually allow it to accelerate, because the first victims of Islamic extremists will be Muslims themselves. Once a critical mass of Muslims get pissed off, this problem will correct itself. So let’s allow these taliban Nazis to accelerate further.

To brt, what you are saying is actually happening. You are the wise one.

I have linked this to my blog and a related issue on today’s The Star highlighting the plight of Hindu rights activists seeking justice over the demolishing of 79 temples nationwide.

http://achareeya.blogspot.com

http://achareeya.blogspot.com/2007/06/group-seeks-action-over-demolition-of.html

Mr.Lim, there is so much talk about religious sensitivities in this country. I,myself a civil servant wish to state that non muslims are being forced to attend courses that include ceramah agama and vcd shows conducted by Jakim. This is very true in the ‘Bengkel Integriti’ course which is compulsory for all government servants to attend or face displicinary action.Right on our faces they talk about kafir which normally refer to us non muslims. Should I react the way these people reacted towards Lina Joy. P.S I went for the course but I stay at hotel room during the ceramah. In future I may not attend any of these courses anymore. I even e-mail the matter to the department concern. Talk about religious freedom! This what happens when the so call ’social contract’ handed over too much power to one community….///

Omigod! Another battlefront opens..:-(

Is the summons issued to the neighbouring Indian restaurant the first “inch” in pursuing that ALL eateries be required to be HALAL? Is this another 4th Floor stealth move, in furtherance of THE world “HALAL” Hub which Malaysia has announced it wants to be?

And we all know the personality behind that initiative is no other than the Son-in-law, with full blessings of Father-in-law

Interesting also, that not long ago, KFC incurred financial losses when their chicken had their HALAL certification disputed by either rumour or official circular. But subsequently validated.

Stretching this a little bit further, if I live in the same street as Muslims/Malays (which I do, by the way), does it also mean that I CANNOT display my little red altar for my joss sticks beside my door, since it is in public view, including in the view too of my neighbours and any Muslim/Malay passing along the street? What about the crucifix I adorn above the entrance way?
What about when I throw my bak-kut-teh and non-HALAL chicken leftover bones in a plastic bag into the rubbish bin? Will Alam Flora be legally/religiously entitled to REFUSE to collect my rubbish?

This country needs divine help from a Council of Gods from up-there.

That being said, from NST report, these people took pictures of Hindu deities from Restaurant Seetharam, an Indian restaurant, which I would assume has nothing to do with halal or not halal provided that they don’t claim it to be. Then this is definitely a breach of constitutional rights and such action, which I would like to call “contempt of the Constitution”, must be acted on with heavy punishments meted out.

“In the U.S. there are kosher food outlets which sell only kosher food to Jews and those who want them. Conservative Jews would only buy from their own who sell only kosher food” - undergrad2

Thanks for the insight undergrad2. That’s the way it should be. If Muslims are offended by items displayed in non-Muslims premises, they have the choice of not patronising these premises.

The way these ‘enforcerment’ were carried out left much to be desired. I have seens such operations by the local authorities on eateries and their conduct is definitely very very intimidating. I was in one of the premise ‘raided’ by these people and these guys really spoilt my evening (and my dinner). By the way, if the authorities (not only Jakim) really care about enforcement (not only religious), I would suggest that our local authority look at the illegal eateries mushrooming everywhere (on pedestrian path eg. opposite Putra LRT’s Universiti Station). I definitely do not think that they are legal (can’t approve to operate on pedestrian path right) and I am really puzzled how they get their water and electricity supply. Again, law is law. And if they really can get out in such big group, then they are definitely not short of man power. Probably can reassign them to do some street patrol.

Muslims follow the same Old Testament tradition. But the decision like in the case of kosher food, should be left to them to make.

This is another example of government intrusion into the private lives of its citizens which is inevitable because Islam has been politicized by design more than by default.

Sorry, please omit DBKL and Trade Ministry which are bodies involved apparently because of licensing issues and because of the lack of bumiputera participation. The display of Quran’ic verses have no relevance to them but only to JAKIM.

It is called law, friend. And not knowing the law is no excuse. But it is true. There is a constitutional issue involved i.e. the right of citizens to practice their religion. The right of Malays to choose their religion is a different matter unconnected to this incident since no Malays were involved - only Muslims of Pakistani origin(?).

This issue of halal certification and the display of Quran’nic verses in business premises open to the public is a matter clearly within the jurisdiction of bodies like JAKIM, DBKL and Ministry of Trade’s Domestic Division. so the issue of who has jurisdiction and who does not is very clear -and is not an issue here.

It is a case involving compliance with the law i.e. the rules and regulations issued by the relevant bodies - and not with the religious beliefs of the Muslim owner of this restaurant!

The other restaurant owner’s constitutional right has clearly been violated. This has to be addressed.

So the incidents we are seeing from time to time are really attempts by the government bodies and agencies concerned with the development of Islam like JAKIM, to stop the growth of such beliefs and teachings.

Unfortunately it has spread to also include the non-Muslims.

“Lim said this was not the first time such raids were conducted and he feared it could set back inter-racial harmony.” KIT

So it has been sensationalized by vested interests?

Past raids have not spared Malay and Muslim businesses who went against the rules and regulations of JAKIM and other similar bodies from having their property confiscated. They have had their Quran’ic verses on display in their premises confiscated.

This phenomenon has been described by foreign journalists as evidence of ‘creeping Islamization’ in Malaysia and has been particularly acute in the last ten years. Increased Government intrusions into the private lives of citizens in a country claiming to be secular and democratic is worrying to both - Muslims and non-Muslims.

“I’m Muslim too, I’m Muslim too,” says Mohammad Jehapar Ali Hussaien Kader, who is still in shock and disbelief that his restaurant was raided by religous officials on Tuesday.

Twenty-five officials from the government religious department Jakim (Jabatan Kemajuan Islam Malaysia) pulled up in front of his Restoran Aiswaria, in Lorong Maarof, Bangsar, during lunch hour on Tuesday, asking to see certification that the eatery was halal.

After finding out that Aiswaria had no official halal documentation, the officials proceeded to take down Quranic verses and a framed picture of the Kaabah from the restaurant’s walls.

According to Mohammed Dhasthasir, one of Aiswaria’s workers, officials took down the verses and picture because they were “misleading”.

He said the officers implied that since the restaurant was not certified halal, Islamic paraphernalia could not be placed on its walls.

The picture and verses were taken by the officials and not returned to the owner.

The officers filed a report (left) stating that Aiswaria had committed several offences, including not having halal certification, displaying Quranic verses not “certified” by Jawi and not hiring Muslim workers.

However, Aiswaria has seven Muslim workers out of a total of 12, including Mohammed Dhasthasir himself.

“I told them I was Muslim, and I signed the report with my full name!” said an indignant Dhasthasir. “My name is Mohammed, how could they not know my religion?”

No proper explanation

Dhasthasir and Ali are also frustrated that the officials took away the restaurant decorations without proper explanation.

“I am Muslim, so why can’t I display Quranic verses? I have them in my car as well.” says Ali. “Just because we have no halal certification, is that a reason for them to take away my religious decoratives?”

He also lamented the officers’ hardline actions. “They should have given us a three-day notice. I understand if you come to check my halal certification, but something like the pictures - they should have let us know and we would have taken them down ourselves.” Ali said. “They shouldn’t have taken them away.”

“It’s akin to legalised robbery.” he added.

Dhasthasir says that the officers came in a large pack, although 15 actually walked into the cafe while the others milled around outside. For 20 minutes, the officers questioned the workers, looked around the restaurant, took the pictures and left.

The New Straits Times today also said that the same officers had also confiscated pictures of Hindu deities from Restaurant Seetharam, an Indian restaurant on the same block as Aiswaria.

Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Lim Kit Siang said in a press statement that the religious authorities should stop their “reign of terror” and called on Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to put them in check.

Referring to the Lorong Maarof raids, he accused them having “little Napoleons” complex of “not understanding the Merdeka social contract” and having “contempt for the constitutional rights of all Malaysians”.

New Straits Times (29.6.07)

KUALA LUMPUR: Is it an offence to place pictures of verses from the Quran and Hindu deities in restaurants?

This is the poser following the confiscation of such pictures from two restaurants in Lorong Maarof, Bangsar, here.

A spokesman for Restaurant Aiswaria, A. Mohd Dhasthagi, said officers from the Department of Islamic Development (Jakim), Kuala Lumpur City Hall and the Domestic Trade and Industry Ministry inspected the premises on Tuesday.

A notice was issued, saying that the restaurant did not have halal certification from Jakim and also did not have Muslim workers. The owner was asked to rectify the situation. The team took away a picture of Mecca and another with verses from the Quran.

Aiswaria owner Jehabar Ali Hussain Kader said yesterday: “I have not broken any laws. It’s ridiculous that I was cited for these offences. I never knew that it is an offence to display religious pictures in my premises. Being a Muslim, I purchase food items from a halal vendor.”

He said he had Muslim workers.

Restaurant Seetharam, a few doors away, was also cited for similar offences. The raiding team confiscated three pictures of Hindu deities placed behind the cashier’s counter.

The employees said they were baffled by the removal of the pictures.

The issue was highlighted yesterday by opposition leader Lim Kit Siang. He had earlier visited the outlets with two other MPs, Chong Eng and Fong Po Kuan.

Lim said this was not the first time such raids were conducted and he feared it could set back inter-racial harmony.

Jakim director-general Datuk Mustafa Abdul Rahman said he was not aware of the incident.

“If it is true, I will ask for a report from the officers involved. This is a sensitive issue and I can’t comment until I know the whole story.”

Perlis Mufti Dr Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin said the display of religious pictures had nothing to do with the food served.

He said Muslims could consume food in restaurants as long as the ingredients were halal and the preparation followed Islamic principles.

“Islam allows the display of religious pictures and paraphernalia in a private area as long as it doesn’t disturb the peace. This incident must be investigated carefully as we don’t know what the real issue is.”

I have received the following very angry email from MS, with a very ferocious heading which I am using - breaking a rule of this blog – Lim Kit Siang//

The above piece and now, this piece, is what people call “irresponsible journalism”. Mr. Lim, you should be ashame of yourself for not getting enough facts to support your claim.

“YB Kit,

I think you better check the facts before blowing up the issue. I have raised this point about the conditions of halal certification in the previous thread “Tolerance my ass!”

Yes, they are prohibited from serving liquor to Muslims and not just Malays. There may be Mongolian Muslims too.

But only if you knowingly flout the law!

Waiters and waitresses have a duty to ask - but that is where their duty stops. They do not have to go further and verify by looking at documents - ICs or Certificates of Conversion issued by JAWI or passports.

But if they ask the patrons could refuse on the ground of discrimination.

The spelling and the kind of ‘diapers’ they have on their heads?

I thought somebody already has the exclusive right to be confused.

There are a number of issues of fact and law here intertwined.

The first is whether, in that case, the halal logo used is that of JAWI’s - fact.

The second is whether JAWI has the sole and exclusive authority to make the halal certification and issue their logo - issue of law.

The third is whether the display of Quranic verses found meet the prior approval of JAWI. Remember that Indian Muslims are Shiites and not Sunnis (in Iraq they are killing each other for being one and not the other) - issues of fact and law.

The fourth is whether the restaurant in question has contravened any of the rules and regulations issued by JAWI - issue of fact.

The fifth is whether the actions of the JAWI enforcement officials violated the constitutional rights of citizens - issues of fact and law.

Finally, whether the Summons is void because it violates the constitutional rights of citizens - issue of law.

There are also issues exclusively of facts and not law.

Was the restaurant owned and managed by citizens or legal permanent residents. This would be an issue for DBKL and their licensing department - and of course, also immigration.

Is the restaurant owner an illegal immigrant who over stayed his visitor’s visa - a question best answered by our Immigration when they are not too busy deleting records of foreign visitors.

What is the difference between Pas and UMNO? NONE. Both are trying to set up an islamic state, PAS to do it openly but UMNO is trying to do it by stealth and sneakily. That is the only difference.

So for the non muslim. Wake up! UMNO is also setting up an islamic state. Wake up MCA and MIC you are sleeping with an islamic party. Do not, as you often lie, that the opposition is sleeping with an islamic party. You are doing it openly and appear to be proud of it.

The country is going islamic by UMNO and Barisan. The difference is that PAS cannot by itself form an islamic state because the opposition have stated they will not endore it.

On the other hand UMNO can set up an islamic state because they are the government and because MCA, MIC and the others partners willingly agree with UMNO to go on the islamic state path by stealth.

To Undergrad2, you must ask whether one can be allowed to flaunt, advertise and hold out a claim to muslim patron that one is strictly halal in one’s restuarant, with proper certification and to buttress one’s claim, display ayat ayat and arabic scriptures from Koran, and yet when one examines the halal certification, it is found to be not from the proper Islamic accreditation authority recognised by Islamic laws of this country but from some dubious agency purporting to be able to certify, when it clearly has no authority to do so - isn’t this false advertisement? Just like in another context you sell goods purportedly made in France when it is actually made in Sri Lanka - aren’t you a fraud liable for committing an offence for misleading public under the Trade Description Act?

That’s how government departments “cari makan”.

Tell that to the Jews who refuse to eat at outlets selling non-kosher food and outlets run by Jews they suspect of infringing their religious beliefs.

I would like to see the image of the cross displayed in my room as manager of the restaurant and not be used as a religious symbol for monetary gain.

I am a Muslim. What is it that you do not know?

Yes. Here you touch on a valid issue which is whether it is ever right for a business to use religion and religious symbols to attract business.

I don’t think this is the reason behind the requirement for the ‘halal’ logo to be displayed at the front of the shop.

If these people really want to get it right than all businesses should not be allowed to use religious symbols in this way. Religious symbols could, of course, adorn the walls of the private part of the business premises.

I they are really serious about it.

Some of the muslims patronize ‘pork free’ eatery. Could this be a sign that in future all restaurants who wish to serve muslim customers must obtain a halal certificate? Or we will have to obtain a non-halal certificate and paste it at the front door so to avoid muslim from stepping in and commit a sin?