Secondly,in commenting about the Federal Court’s decision-i am at no surprise that lina was actually being defeated.the decision was based on a utilitarian concept ie;the greatest pleasure for the greatest number-as Jeremy Bentham would say.this clearly contradicts or is inconsistent with the concept of the right to a fair trial.if ‘justice’ cannot be seen in ones homeland,where else can a citizen of a country go?so much for ‘malaysia boleh’.

Thirdly,the aftermath of the case-the muslim’s are happy and the non-muslim’s are wondering what has happen to equal rights and non-discrimination amongst race and religion in a country which connotes THAT.

But,one tends to wonder,what would the remarks be if the decision was decided otherwise?we would have the government’s view on the case,the judges,the lawyers,the academics and not to forget the islamic extremist.this would then set a precedent to many,changing the info in their mykads.multi racial marriages between a muslim n non-muslim wherein which conversion would not be an issue to even talk about.the traditional view on marriage would be upheld-a VOLUNTARY union of a man and a waoman to the exclusion of others…but if the law for the matter is seen as a hurdle to bypass,then the CONSTITUTION which connotes freedom of religion would be of no use.

There is absolutely no use to force someone to be something they are not.ISLAM strives for peace.by actually denying her to change/remove the word in her mykad…she is denied a right to a fair trial,a right to marry and freedom of religion.what makes you think that another would not hesitate to even leave the country,for the matter if human rights are not taken seriously?as it is we are loosing qualified graduates who refuse to come back…

Lastly,kudos to lina joy to actually bring the case up to the apex.now,this case will be read by many in law text books…but what is the big deal?maybe we should also come up with a legislation akin to the ECHR…but,wait a minute;who makes law?Parliament…who sits there?…..hhhmmm…sometimes, we just have to embrace the FACT and ACCEPT it!

….and there are things which was not expressed… but implied…

I do agree with your last sentence… in this case- a man take a 9-year old girl(Aisyah) as wife….

If you read the Bible closely, under Genesis there were two versions of the Creation.

One version has it that God created the first Man, Adam out of dust and later almost as an afterthought created Eve to keep him company. He created Eve out of Adam’s ribs. What does that tell you if not the first Woman was to be docile and dependent on the first Man?

Talk about ‘sexism’ in our Parliament! God was sexist.

Then there is the other version of the Creation which has it that God created Adam and Eve out of dust and at the same time. You don’t have to believe me. Read Genesis for yourself. Remember the Bible is not just a book of faith but is also a history book.

Scholars studied both versions of the Creation and some thought that the second version is suspect. According to this ‘feminist’ viewpoint, Eve was not the first Woman but Lilith is. Lilith was Adam’s equal. Eve was substituted by male writers later to make women appear docile and dependent on men.

Don’t forget the Bible is also a history book. In the Old Testament men were living up to 700 years and were having hundreds of wives and concubines. Check it out!

A prophet of the Old Testament Lot after escaping from the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah had sex with his own daughters! Check that one out too.

Since we all are descendant of Adam and Eve there must have been incest. How else would the earth be populated?? Indeed there was widespread sinning those days and God became angry and decided to drown every living thing except for Noah, his family and a pair of each animal that walked the earth. Then it is incest all over again!

Then came The New Testament. They are testaments because they are covenants struck between God and us. In this New Testament, there was no mention of monogamy by Jesus.

I do not know the Qur’an but Prophet Muhammad today would fit the definition of a pedophile. I am sorry.

But in Old Testament, it was told that: God created Adam, then created Eve as his companion…. that is 1 woman for 1 man…… one for one…….

But Islam allow a man to take 4 wives….. does that means that men’s needs had increased… that God change his mind and approving man to have for wives?

God being a superior being should know what would be the traits of the man he created… why didn’t he created 4 women for Adam?… so I could not really agree that Islam’s God is the Old testament God…

Yeah what happened to it? I heard it was reported in Chinese newspapers (GuangMing) but not reported in any of the mainstream English papers. Was it true? Were papers instructed not to report?

Someone had written about the doom of Malaysia…but his view is narrow and did not touch on the historical aspect…kind of “commentary” rather than a good writing…

What has gone wrong. Why has religious polarization become worse instead of better, especially when the Islam Hadhari advocated by the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi is to promote justice, integrity and harmony.
UNQUOTE.

I don’t know much what happened during the 60s and 70s. Learning osmotically that these periods are exceptionally quiet (in religious aspect)and easy going in the interaction amongst the races-radicalism of Islam is unheard of. Post 9/11, and May 13 started the big bang. May 13 is a different set of situation, alright. Then come PAS!

Most moderate governments are facing the problem of radicals now (what happen to yesterday bomb blast in Puduraya? Nobody said anything about it???)that some have to satisfy these radicals so they have to “enforce” some “strictures” so that they look the same. Otherwise, by GE most voters will go to PAS. Simple as that. The juggling is the most painful one that a forceful stricture will “hurt” the non muslim…but then again who knows what’s the “final goal”? So, Unc Kit, you should raise the issue on the building bridges, but read their lips (with much respect to you, I am not teaching…in fact you should read their soul!). ? ?? .

The other issue on the “Law of Mobocracy” (mob crazy)we often being bombarded with the always “peaceful and friendly” Malaysia especially with each and every GE, the underline message is that mobocracy will ruled if there is some “unbalances” in the power game. So, how? much water had flow since then and this phrase is so workable that the “May 13″ had always been brought up everytime during GE. Recently, it could have re-phrase to a “peaceful & friendly” then. Catch the phrase!

So, Malaysia had gone from a very very moderate to a politically correct politico-religious governing. No more striaght sense of politic per se. It has embraced the true teaching of the religion -so to say.

Did the Islam Hadhari had impact domestically? Had it being exported or that it has imported another version, instead?

So, what’s wrong you asked? We would like to know. This has impact for the all subsequent generations of non muslim.

can U ask PM if we all of us can be called “Bumiputras”

that will solve your unity problems quite imeediately

“And God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeliness…”

**I dont think it can get much clearer than that. So swine, and Jews also are loved. It’s man that creates and propogates hate, although religion tells us to love and respect each other.**

Please read the Quranic ayat below.

al-Quran 5:60

Katakanlah: Mahukah, aku khabarkan kepada kamu tentang yang lebih buruk balasannya di sisi Allah daripada yang demikian itu? Ialah orang-orang yang dilaknat oleh Allah dan dimurkaiNya dan orang-orang yang dijadikan di antara mereka sebagai kera dan babi dan penyembah Taghut. Mereka inilah yang lebih buruk kedudukannya dan yang lebih sesat dari jalan yang betul.

As the more impulsive and knee-jerk discussions on the Lina Joy decision continue to wind down, it’s comforting to read that Parliament will be discussing the matter on Monday (well, they will have an opportunity to discuss it anyway), as well as…

Extreme oppression were expreinced before. It was done in the Nazi concentration camp by Hitler, in Rubin Island by the Africanas, in Viet Nam by the Vietkong and many others. In each case the surviors were those who maintain that inner freedom no matter under what trial. So my prayer for Lina Joy is that she be unpertubed by oppression. But keep her inner peace which is hers alone. Shallom.

That Lina Joy wants to convert into Christianity is beyond the control of the islamic authorities. How the authorities, and us fellow Malaysians react to her conversion will determine whether there will be a positive outcome to Lina’s conversion.

That the judge should rule against Lina Joy’s suit to compel the NRD to delete the word “Islam” from her identity card is beyond Lina Joy’s control. How she reacts to the result will determine if there will be a positive outcome to her failure.

In life we do not have control over many things that happen to us. But whether we succeed in finding balance and happiness depends on how we react to an event, be it positive or negative.

Kit, you may ask Abdullah the questions… but I am afraid he has no answer. Neither do you have the answer. Each and everyone of us has to find our own answer. :)

I salute you for your resilience and courage. I have been your ardent supporter 100% for the past 40 years, and will ever be. Hope you can come out with some excellent strategies with Anwar, the only hope…maybe another devil; but better to have alternative devils than the same one all the time. At least can keep all the devils on their toes!!
Terima kasih, Saudara Lim Kit Siang.

Not only that, race also should not mix. Let me give you a bad example of how thing can be very complicated; let say one is a muslim, an UMNO and a Malay, all three combined and you have what we have today, problems and soon disaster. The only way religious intolerance or religious extremist can be counter is the disintegration of UMNO and that you do through the ballot box, by that I don’t ask you to vote for PAS.