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	<title>Comments on: Religion disrupting families &#8212; two more cases</title>
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		<title>By: budu</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-19986</link>
		<dc:creator>budu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 14:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-19986</guid>
		<description>what next? I see UMNO having new laws where when one joins UMNO they can never leave and would be capture and rehabilitated. Where when one of the spouses joins UMNO the other must join too or else they have to &#039;cerai&#039;. Where the conceived baby, children automatically must become UMNO members. This way our country would be the first DEMO-cratic country that don&#039;t have to hold general elections. Get my drift. So where is freedom and rights? I suggest we erase these from our dictionary and kamus so we would not make a mockery of our country&#039;s constitution of Religious Freedom. 

For the love of GOD leave those children alone, let them make their own choices when they matured and grow up. Who are you to force religion on them. Even GOD never forced people to believe, GOD asked us to choose. GOD gave us this freedom. The goverment wants to take away these freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what next? I see UMNO having new laws where when one joins UMNO they can never leave and would be capture and rehabilitated. Where when one of the spouses joins UMNO the other must join too or else they have to &#8216;cerai&#8217;. Where the conceived baby, children automatically must become UMNO members. This way our country would be the first DEMO-cratic country that don&#8217;t have to hold general elections. Get my drift. So where is freedom and rights? I suggest we erase these from our dictionary and kamus so we would not make a mockery of our country&#8217;s constitution of Religious Freedom. </p>
<p>For the love of GOD leave those children alone, let them make their own choices when they matured and grow up. Who are you to force religion on them. Even GOD never forced people to believe, GOD asked us to choose. GOD gave us this freedom. The goverment wants to take away these freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Tai Lo Chin</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15313</link>
		<dc:creator>Tai Lo Chin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 22:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15313</guid>
		<description>Karpal is both politician and lawyer. There lies the conflict. The course he advises as a lawyer for his client to take which is good for him may be the opposite course what an opposition politician should advocate for the good of Malaysians. Which course to take in such a conflict?

Like the handling of P Marimuthu and his Muslim wife Raimah Bibi predicament. Maybe he thought the out of court settlement was good for Raimah BibiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s overall interest as a mother.

It is however not in line with the position of many of us who desire the issue fought and determined in court. WomenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Aid Organisation (WAO) director Ivy Josiah criticized the approach. 

She felt Raimah BibiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s decision could not be entirely free from Ã¢â‚¬Å“duressÃ¢â‚¬Â of circumstances. 

Karpal was not happy. Karpal said in a statement yesterday that there was no question of the settlement having been brought about under duress. He said Raimah Bibi confirmed the arrangement in open court. 
&quot;I am calling upon Ivy to withdraw her statement and apologise to the judge, the Selangor legal adviser, myself, Marimuthu and RaimahÃ¢â‚¬Â Karpal said.

Why is Karpal doing this? Is it stress of conflict or what?

Uncle LKS, it will be good if you impart some of your wisdom to your comrade in arms.

Ivy Josiah and all of us are on the same side. We are the civil society fighting for a better Malaysia. Tell Karpal not to give veiled threats to those fighting on same side with pure heart. Karpal can argue his case but donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t threaten like that lah! 

You remember one time you had &quot;an issue&quot; with Malaysiakini&#039;s reporting on DAP affairs. You told it off. It rebutted you. All fair and square. You didn&#039;t threaten &amp; ask for apology with veiled threat. Advise Karpal don&#039;t do that to Ivy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karpal is both politician and lawyer. There lies the conflict. The course he advises as a lawyer for his client to take which is good for him may be the opposite course what an opposition politician should advocate for the good of Malaysians. Which course to take in such a conflict?</p>
<p>Like the handling of P Marimuthu and his Muslim wife Raimah Bibi predicament. Maybe he thought the out of court settlement was good for Raimah BibiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s overall interest as a mother.</p>
<p>It is however not in line with the position of many of us who desire the issue fought and determined in court. WomenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Aid Organisation (WAO) director Ivy Josiah criticized the approach. </p>
<p>She felt Raimah BibiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s decision could not be entirely free from Ã¢â‚¬Å“duressÃ¢â‚¬Â of circumstances. </p>
<p>Karpal was not happy. Karpal said in a statement yesterday that there was no question of the settlement having been brought about under duress. He said Raimah Bibi confirmed the arrangement in open court.<br />
&#8220;I am calling upon Ivy to withdraw her statement and apologise to the judge, the Selangor legal adviser, myself, Marimuthu and RaimahÃ¢â‚¬Â Karpal said.</p>
<p>Why is Karpal doing this? Is it stress of conflict or what?</p>
<p>Uncle LKS, it will be good if you impart some of your wisdom to your comrade in arms.</p>
<p>Ivy Josiah and all of us are on the same side. We are the civil society fighting for a better Malaysia. Tell Karpal not to give veiled threats to those fighting on same side with pure heart. Karpal can argue his case but donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t threaten like that lah! </p>
<p>You remember one time you had &#8220;an issue&#8221; with Malaysiakini&#8217;s reporting on DAP affairs. You told it off. It rebutted you. All fair and square. You didn&#8217;t threaten &amp; ask for apology with veiled threat. Advise Karpal don&#8217;t do that to Ivy.</p>
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		<title>By: Tai Lo Chin</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15310</link>
		<dc:creator>Tai Lo Chin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 22:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15310</guid>
		<description>Whether civil or Syariah courts, they should not rule in favour of opportunists. Not saying here all converts are opportunists but some whom I have come across certainly are. Like for example some (Chinese) converts told me how good and better for them that they now enjoyed bumiputra privileges. Well maybe not as extensively as those born into the religion but certainly better than rest of us second class citizens. 

This sickens me in the stomach how some people can sell their soul and dignity for such practical hypocrisy.

I have always been a second class citizen in Malaysia but lived life first class without having to convert for bumi privileges.

There is but one thing worse than being treated by others as second class Ã¢â‚¬â€œ that is believing it yourself that youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re second class and hating your station in life for it.  

I hope you young people out there will wear your chain of oppression with dignity pride and honour. It is small minds out there doing it to you. It cannot suppress you unless you yourself look down on yourself to play by their rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether civil or Syariah courts, they should not rule in favour of opportunists. Not saying here all converts are opportunists but some whom I have come across certainly are. Like for example some (Chinese) converts told me how good and better for them that they now enjoyed bumiputra privileges. Well maybe not as extensively as those born into the religion but certainly better than rest of us second class citizens. </p>
<p>This sickens me in the stomach how some people can sell their soul and dignity for such practical hypocrisy.</p>
<p>I have always been a second class citizen in Malaysia but lived life first class without having to convert for bumi privileges.</p>
<p>There is but one thing worse than being treated by others as second class Ã¢â‚¬â€œ that is believing it yourself that youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re second class and hating your station in life for it.  </p>
<p>I hope you young people out there will wear your chain of oppression with dignity pride and honour. It is small minds out there doing it to you. It cannot suppress you unless you yourself look down on yourself to play by their rules.</p>
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		<title>By: undergrad2</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15269</link>
		<dc:creator>undergrad2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 18:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15269</guid>
		<description>&quot;Karpal will be applying for a declaration from the civil court to assert Benedict GopalÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s constitutional rights while in the latter case, a habeas corpus application by Magendran to free Najeera from illegal detention by JAIS authorities has been filed.&quot;

I  hope Karpal, by doing what as a lawyer he is required to do, does not once again miss the opportunity of having the Appeals Court litigate on the matter of constitutional rights.

He missed the last time - when he did what was best for his client but not for the rest of us - which was to compromise.

This time it is the constitutional right of Gopal against that of his wife. Because as a Muslim she comes also within the jurisdiction of the syariah courts, she is more likely to prevail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Karpal will be applying for a declaration from the civil court to assert Benedict GopalÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s constitutional rights while in the latter case, a habeas corpus application by Magendran to free Najeera from illegal detention by JAIS authorities has been filed.&#8221;</p>
<p>I  hope Karpal, by doing what as a lawyer he is required to do, does not once again miss the opportunity of having the Appeals Court litigate on the matter of constitutional rights.</p>
<p>He missed the last time &#8211; when he did what was best for his client but not for the rest of us &#8211; which was to compromise.</p>
<p>This time it is the constitutional right of Gopal against that of his wife. Because as a Muslim she comes also within the jurisdiction of the syariah courts, she is more likely to prevail.</p>
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		<title>By: democrate</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15204</link>
		<dc:creator>democrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 13:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15204</guid>
		<description>Are they trying to show PAS that they are more Islamic .It could be a political tricks in the expense of the non muslim. PAS on the other hands should clarify. It is too cruel and high handed of these group of religious hypocrites. i doubt it is a true teaching of this religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are they trying to show PAS that they are more Islamic .It could be a political tricks in the expense of the non muslim. PAS on the other hands should clarify. It is too cruel and high handed of these group of religious hypocrites. i doubt it is a true teaching of this religion.</p>
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		<title>By: ctzen</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15184</link>
		<dc:creator>ctzen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 11:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15184</guid>
		<description>The hopeless MCA and MIC are hopeless to the core. I pray that one day something like this happens to them or someone dear to them, let them feel the pain, then only will they realize that they should have voice their dissatisfaction over this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hopeless MCA and MIC are hopeless to the core. I pray that one day something like this happens to them or someone dear to them, let them feel the pain, then only will they realize that they should have voice their dissatisfaction over this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimm</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15141</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 07:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15141</guid>
		<description>What kind of values are we trying to put up here? In any religion teaching, we are seek to be harmonising any issue within or around us. Learn to accept those that we cannot change in good faith.
Everyone&#039;s action reflects their personal understanding. So goes, to all of us. GOD Almighty is always above all things.
To me, the more we try to protect, the more we tends to lose out.
The way to things is to grow in faith with what the Almighty is asking us to, be it big or small , personal or public.
As I may share here, none of us is prefect unless we share the common space with those that have &#039;kick the bucket&#039;. Their body are so peaceful.
The authorities will continue to keep us chasing after those cases where they found deem to arrest and detained locally. All these are common citizen. They won&#039;t dare to keep their vow to their job to arrest any of those &#039;high profile&#039;, VVIPs and &#039;related&#039; individuals even when there are enough evidence to act upon. One of the reason mentioned, &quot;it&#039;s their private life, we have to respect their decision,&quot; Would you believe that !!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What kind of values are we trying to put up here? In any religion teaching, we are seek to be harmonising any issue within or around us. Learn to accept those that we cannot change in good faith.<br />
Everyone&#8217;s action reflects their personal understanding. So goes, to all of us. GOD Almighty is always above all things.<br />
To me, the more we try to protect, the more we tends to lose out.<br />
The way to things is to grow in faith with what the Almighty is asking us to, be it big or small , personal or public.<br />
As I may share here, none of us is prefect unless we share the common space with those that have &#8216;kick the bucket&#8217;. Their body are so peaceful.<br />
The authorities will continue to keep us chasing after those cases where they found deem to arrest and detained locally. All these are common citizen. They won&#8217;t dare to keep their vow to their job to arrest any of those &#8216;high profile&#8217;, VVIPs and &#8216;related&#8217; individuals even when there are enough evidence to act upon. One of the reason mentioned, &#8220;it&#8217;s their private life, we have to respect their decision,&#8221; Would you believe that !!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15137</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 06:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15137</guid>
		<description>Rakyat...What DAP ,PKR are Genuinely Defending  all the while ...Our Real Democratical Freedoms ,Our Rights and Citizens with  OUR HUMAN  DIGNITY AND RESPECT...and for our Human Race future generation to continue our legacies ...
We are all  GOD &#039;s Merciful,Gracious Creations....and I said that your muslims allah could Not hv siad that Bribery Nationals  Umnoputras  should Simply hold own Religious freedom standard  by waving  their Kris  to threaten OPS LALLANG   to Same Human Races .
We should all DISCARD  such Faith Once for all.....Its absolutely Useless and worthless pursue.....
Rakyats...We Must  Stand in Unity Strength defend  Our Freedom Againsr Umnoism Evil Onslaught and Moral Relativism and Rubbish Culture Declination ...We also need to alleviate these InHumane Oppression and Sufferings So that we can walk the Streets of KL ,PJ etc ...Unafraid .,&quot;Thank God for His Mercy and Grace&quot;.
[deleted]
 Finally, in our own societies we must protect and uphold voices like this  above Significant case brought out -seek outBy YB KARPAL and YB KIT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rakyat&#8230;What DAP ,PKR are Genuinely Defending  all the while &#8230;Our Real Democratical Freedoms ,Our Rights and Citizens with  OUR HUMAN  DIGNITY AND RESPECT&#8230;and for our Human Race future generation to continue our legacies &#8230;<br />
We are all  GOD &#8216;s Merciful,Gracious Creations&#8230;.and I said that your muslims allah could Not hv siad that Bribery Nationals  Umnoputras  should Simply hold own Religious freedom standard  by waving  their Kris  to threaten OPS LALLANG   to Same Human Races .<br />
We should all DISCARD  such Faith Once for all&#8230;..Its absolutely Useless and worthless pursue&#8230;..<br />
Rakyats&#8230;We Must  Stand in Unity Strength defend  Our Freedom Againsr Umnoism Evil Onslaught and Moral Relativism and Rubbish Culture Declination &#8230;We also need to alleviate these InHumane Oppression and Sufferings So that we can walk the Streets of KL ,PJ etc &#8230;Unafraid .,&#8221;Thank God for His Mercy and Grace&#8221;.<br />
[deleted]<br />
 Finally, in our own societies we must protect and uphold voices like this  above Significant case brought out -seek outBy YB KARPAL and YB KIT</p>
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		<title>By: k1980</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15129</link>
		<dc:creator>k1980</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 05:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15129</guid>
		<description>In view of the increasing number of cases of converted spouses creating hell upon divorce, non-islamic couples intending marriage should mutually insist on having a binding clause being inserted into their marriage contract, viz the party that intend to convert to islam must first seek a divorce, settle everything with the ex-spouse and THEN only convert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In view of the increasing number of cases of converted spouses creating hell upon divorce, non-islamic couples intending marriage should mutually insist on having a binding clause being inserted into their marriage contract, viz the party that intend to convert to islam must first seek a divorce, settle everything with the ex-spouse and THEN only convert</p>
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		<title>By: HJ Angus</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15126</link>
		<dc:creator>HJ Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 05:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15126</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately humans are really weak creatures and when hurt will make use of possible religious avenues to seek revenge on their partners.

Is it not within the Syariah court&#039;s authority to direct the &quot;convert&quot; to sort out her civil problems before offering her assistance in her new religion?

That way the dignity of both courts can be preserved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately humans are really weak creatures and when hurt will make use of possible religious avenues to seek revenge on their partners.</p>
<p>Is it not within the Syariah court&#8217;s authority to direct the &#8220;convert&#8221; to sort out her civil problems before offering her assistance in her new religion?</p>
<p>That way the dignity of both courts can be preserved.</p>
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		<title>By: BobSam</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15120</link>
		<dc:creator>BobSam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 05:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15120</guid>
		<description>I believe they talk behind the closed doors of the Cabinet meeting. There they raise their concerns. The PM then gets one of his running dogs to solve the issue. The system works...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe they talk behind the closed doors of the Cabinet meeting. There they raise their concerns. The PM then gets one of his running dogs to solve the issue. The system works&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: madmix</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15107</link>
		<dc:creator>madmix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 04:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15107</guid>
		<description>wife snatching; chidren snatching; corpse snatching. Dead or alive, you can be snatched!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wife snatching; chidren snatching; corpse snatching. Dead or alive, you can be snatched!</p>
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		<title>By: ah lau</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15098</link>
		<dc:creator>ah lau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 03:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15098</guid>
		<description>For too long, religions have been dividing peoples and providing warm beds to the few for causing cruelty to the majority who are peace loving ........

Each time there is a call in the name of religions, many have perished .........

The only peaceful religion is the belief in NATURE. Nature is all gods combined. Why people invent an artificial being to control themselves ?  Look around and you will witness the good  efforts and resources wasted in the name of god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For too long, religions have been dividing peoples and providing warm beds to the few for causing cruelty to the majority who are peace loving &#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Each time there is a call in the name of religions, many have perished &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>The only peaceful religion is the belief in NATURE. Nature is all gods combined. Why people invent an artificial being to control themselves ?  Look around and you will witness the good  efforts and resources wasted in the name of god.</p>
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		<title>By: Libra2</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15041</link>
		<dc:creator>Libra2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 01:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15041</guid>
		<description>The silence from MIC, MCA, Gerakan and other non Muslim parties is deafening.
If only the non-Muslims see these parties as opportunists and political chameleons. They change coulour and go into hiding when cases like this crop up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The silence from MIC, MCA, Gerakan and other non Muslim parties is deafening.<br />
If only the non-Muslims see these parties as opportunists and political chameleons. They change coulour and go into hiding when cases like this crop up.</p>
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		<title>By: good coolie</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-15038</link>
		<dc:creator>good coolie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 00:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-15038</guid>
		<description>Nur Ardyana should go to the civil court(as opposed to the syariah court) for redress. This is because her request for custody of children relates to her marriage at civil law, which marriage SUBSISTS AT CIVIL LAW. She or the religious authorities cannot pretend that civil law does not exist. 
  Her conversion to Islam is not a ground for divorce per se under civil law (correct me if I am wrong): that is, she is not &quot;at fault&quot;.
  Benedict has the right to seek an injunction against Nur Ardyana, even to start another constitutional &quot; cause celebre &quot; that would bring into focus, the ambit of 121(1A). 
  This type of case will be seen again and again as long as the Federal Court delays in delivering judgement on Lina Joy&#039;s case. 
  Anyway, such is my loyar - buruk take on the position of this unfortunate couple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nur Ardyana should go to the civil court(as opposed to the syariah court) for redress. This is because her request for custody of children relates to her marriage at civil law, which marriage SUBSISTS AT CIVIL LAW. She or the religious authorities cannot pretend that civil law does not exist.<br />
  Her conversion to Islam is not a ground for divorce per se under civil law (correct me if I am wrong): that is, she is not &#8220;at fault&#8221;.<br />
  Benedict has the right to seek an injunction against Nur Ardyana, even to start another constitutional &#8221; cause celebre &#8221; that would bring into focus, the ambit of 121(1A).<br />
  This type of case will be seen again and again as long as the Federal Court delays in delivering judgement on Lina Joy&#8217;s case.<br />
  Anyway, such is my loyar &#8211; buruk take on the position of this unfortunate couple.</p>
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		<title>By: accountability</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-14993</link>
		<dc:creator>accountability</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 22:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-14993</guid>
		<description>these unemployable bums in JAIS are bullying the rakyat, they MUST be stopped!

what is the lame BN doing about this??!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>these unemployable bums in JAIS are bullying the rakyat, they MUST be stopped!</p>
<p>what is the lame BN doing about this??!</p>
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		<title>By: smeagroo</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-14932</link>
		<dc:creator>smeagroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 17:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-14932</guid>
		<description>It is so sick isnt it? what difference are they from terrorists who killed bcos they think they r doing God&#039;s work for the betterment of mankind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is so sick isnt it? what difference are they from terrorists who killed bcos they think they r doing God&#8217;s work for the betterment of mankind?</p>
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		<title>By: Tai Lo Chin</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-14926</link>
		<dc:creator>Tai Lo Chin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 17:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-14926</guid>
		<description>To Diaperhead: One partner may be converting. Whether it is for reasons outside or within this world, it is that partnerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s personal decision. Good or bad for themselves is nobodyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s business. However if by their conversion, injustice is done to the other partner who cries out for justice not only for the party but their children, it then becomes our business. It is our business because as cited by our Uncle Kit Ã¢â‚¬Å“on May 3, 2007, she (Nur Adryana Questina) Ã¢â‚¬Å“secured an ex-parte order from the Negri Sembilan Syariah Court directing the Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) and the Police to co-operate to get Benedict Gopal to hand over Melissa and Jason to the motherÃ¢â‚¬Â. Here the full power of the state including Negeri sembilan Syariah Court and the police backed the enforcement by Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) of Nur Adryana Questina under the rules of the new framework. It then becomes our business. The full power of the state is used in partisan way to back Nur Adryana QuestinaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s self serving and unfair actions of changing horse at midstream against one such as Benedict Gopal who like the rest of us are outside the Islamic framework. I would say the exercise of state power in partisan way without heed to families being wrecked and common sense fairness is very much part of our collective business and concern as citizens of this country. DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t you think so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Diaperhead: One partner may be converting. Whether it is for reasons outside or within this world, it is that partnerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s personal decision. Good or bad for themselves is nobodyÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s business. However if by their conversion, injustice is done to the other partner who cries out for justice not only for the party but their children, it then becomes our business. It is our business because as cited by our Uncle Kit Ã¢â‚¬Å“on May 3, 2007, she (Nur Adryana Questina) Ã¢â‚¬Å“secured an ex-parte order from the Negri Sembilan Syariah Court directing the Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) and the Police to co-operate to get Benedict Gopal to hand over Melissa and Jason to the motherÃ¢â‚¬Â. Here the full power of the state including Negeri sembilan Syariah Court and the police backed the enforcement by Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) of Nur Adryana Questina under the rules of the new framework. It then becomes our business. The full power of the state is used in partisan way to back Nur Adryana QuestinaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s self serving and unfair actions of changing horse at midstream against one such as Benedict Gopal who like the rest of us are outside the Islamic framework. I would say the exercise of state power in partisan way without heed to families being wrecked and common sense fairness is very much part of our collective business and concern as citizens of this country. DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t you think so?</p>
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		<title>By: DiaperHead</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-14916</link>
		<dc:creator>DiaperHead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 16:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-14916</guid>
		<description>Ã¢â‚¬Å“To allow one spouse to change system midstream and take advantage of it not only violates sanctity of family life but also condones bad faith on the party changing horse midstream.Ã¢â‚¬Â Tai Lo  Chin

In this case it is the partner doing it, and not the Government of Malaysia!

This is akin to changing  the rules of the game midstream. Yes, I agree Ã¢â‚¬â€œ 
except that in this case it is initiated by the partner who no longer sees the relevance of the game to her,

Then there are cases of Buddhists and Hindus who converted to become Muslims for the wrong reason. The reason is wrong because the reason for the conversion has nothing to do with religion and certainly not the Muslim religion. The conversion is to acquire the privileged status of Ã¢â‚¬ËœbumiputraÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ and Ã¢â‚¬ËœMuslim convertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ motivated only by earthly reasons and not by reasons not of this world! It is not as if two wrongs donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make a right but imagine what it could do to  family unity. Talking about apportioning blame!

What do you have to say to that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ã¢â‚¬Å“To allow one spouse to change system midstream and take advantage of it not only violates sanctity of family life but also condones bad faith on the party changing horse midstream.Ã¢â‚¬Â Tai Lo  Chin</p>
<p>In this case it is the partner doing it, and not the Government of Malaysia!</p>
<p>This is akin to changing  the rules of the game midstream. Yes, I agree Ã¢â‚¬â€œ<br />
except that in this case it is initiated by the partner who no longer sees the relevance of the game to her,</p>
<p>Then there are cases of Buddhists and Hindus who converted to become Muslims for the wrong reason. The reason is wrong because the reason for the conversion has nothing to do with religion and certainly not the Muslim religion. The conversion is to acquire the privileged status of Ã¢â‚¬ËœbumiputraÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ and Ã¢â‚¬ËœMuslim convertÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ motivated only by earthly reasons and not by reasons not of this world! It is not as if two wrongs donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make a right but imagine what it could do to  family unity. Talking about apportioning blame!</p>
<p>What do you have to say to that?</p>
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		<title>By: HJ Angus</title>
		<link>http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/05/08/religion-disrupting-families-%e2%80%93-two-more-cases/comment-page-1/#comment-14912</link>
		<dc:creator>HJ Angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 16:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=207#comment-14912</guid>
		<description>We never heard of such cases in the good old days.
http://malaysiawatch2.blogspot.com/2007/05/50-years-ago-in-malaya-or-good-old-days.html

It appears that as Malaysia prospered, the religious authorities have been given more manpower to enforce their laws.

Previously they used to snatch corpses but now even small children are being detained.

If you look at the poll on my blog, you will notice that the majority feel that the Muslim judges have not been doing their jobs properly in the secular courts.

Now it seems that the religious courts are calling the shots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We never heard of such cases in the good old days.<br />
<a href="http://malaysiawatch2.blogspot.com/2007/05/50-years-ago-in-malaya-or-good-old-days.html" rel="nofollow">http://malaysiawatch2.blogspot.com/2007/05/50-years-ago-in-malaya-or-good-old-days.html</a></p>
<p>It appears that as Malaysia prospered, the religious authorities have been given more manpower to enforce their laws.</p>
<p>Previously they used to snatch corpses but now even small children are being detained.</p>
<p>If you look at the poll on my blog, you will notice that the majority feel that the Muslim judges have not been doing their jobs properly in the secular courts.</p>
<p>Now it seems that the religious courts are calling the shots.</p>
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