Singapore Malays better off than Chinese in Malaysia
by Richard Teo
It is rather ironic that Baki Aminuddin could venture to write in Malayisakini that “S’pore Malays worse off than Chinese here” when in fact the opposite is the truth.
Before I begin to answer his fallacious argument I would like to pose one very simple question to him. If S’pore Malays are really worse off in Singapore why is there no exodus of Malays from S’pore to Malaysia? Instead the opposite is happening where the Chinese are making a beeline to Singapore for work and education?
Baki is naive to deny that LKY’s statement that the BN govt is systemmatically marginalising the Chinese and non-Malays. Before condemning the S’pore govt of marginalising the Malays and their education Baki should support his assertion with facts rather
than spurious allegations.
There is no official policy to deny the Malays the chance to further their education till tertiary level provided they have the abilty to compete on a level playing field. Can Baki honestly say that the Chinese and non-Malays in Malaysia are given the same opportunity in education? Is it not a fact that Malays are exclusively given places in Mara schools where with their one year matriculation exams they can hop into any of the local universities whereas non-Malays have to undergo the more rigorous two year STPM exam to gain admission?
Baki must be living in a different planet if he does not know that the NEP is a policy marginalising the non-Malays. Can he pin-point any specific policy in S’pore where there is such a policy of blatant discrimination against the Malays?
Baki fails even to understand that S’pore practices meritocracy and if a Malay is capable he can hold any post and this is vindicated by the post of President being held by an Indian.Similarly, the post of foreign minister and finance are also held by Indians.
It is really sad that people like Baki who are so used to the easy life with all the perks they enjoy in Malaysia that they tend to forget that what they abundantly get is at the expense of the non-Malays.
I would strongly urge Baki and those Malays who accept his illusory perception of the S’pore Malays to read a letter written by an illustrous Singaporean Malay, Dr.Syed Alwi, who wrote an article about the “The Malaysian Malay”.
Perhaps it would be appropriate for me to quote some words of wisdom from this great Singaporean Malay,”No one owes Malaysian Malays a living. Let me assure you that should Malaysia fails- the Malaysian Malays will suffer enormously.”
#1 by ccjett on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:29 am
Baki or whoever, they are not denying the facts but instead they just can’t admit they r dependant on the unfair policies to gain a so called “level playing field”. They just can’t admit it as they are so used to living in their own lie that they are as good as others..
Even they know Malays in Singapore are treated far far more fairly then here.. I just can’t see any Malay leader would come forward and admit “We, Malays, have to carry on with the marginalising policies because we, Malays, are still incapable after all these marginalising years”.
Since when u know a Malays leader that would admit their wrong doing? not to mention one who hands out apology. I can’t recall.
#2 by pamelaoda on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:29 am
Uncle lim,
reading junks from people like Baki really makes my blood boilll! They r so katak and Spore is just abus away, so buy a ticket and go there and observe! I worked in singapore and have biz relationship with them for a good 5/6 years or more and it is so different when you talk and deal with a malay there as compared to here. Better english, wider general knowledge and do not sulk when sharing a table with chinese during lunch in a food court (freedom or religion , ma)etc etc. When asked, they prefers Spore and felt lucky and term the malays in malaysia as slow and stupid and generally poorer in education and standard of living (sori but is a fact). Not only they do not critize but full of priase of the government and all races r the same, the citizen just needs to follow the system tat being set up. Although i must agreed the police force and defence will never have a malay as the top person, this oso mainly due to politic’s strategy ,mainly islam neighbourhood (well malaysian neither have chinese or indian too right). Since Baki want to know why no prominent ministers yet beside Yusoff in the SGD currency is bcos, they r still not there yet la! Secondly , dont get fooled yourself with our malays ministers .They r there cos u don put other more capable races there and that’s y we r dying now, katak!
ITu la malays need to fight with the rest of the world to toughen themselves. Hiding in Ketuanan Tanah Melayu with self denial policies and goodies )just like cheating during exam) will one day mati sama sama, bila orang cakap baik baik – marah pulak nak simpan dendam…the more u need the NEP , the quicker we die..I stress WE cos u r pulling the whole nation down..Sighs, if this statement could be given out by tis Baki (maybe many many more) can u still trust malaysia’ education ?!?!
#3 by democrate on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:31 am
Singapore Malays are feeling high and proud cos they do not need a TONGKAT as what our Malays need. They do not mind to hold meetings with other races with different religions.We hv to learn from them!
#4 by pamelaoda on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:53 am
to add on, singapore government do not compromise on education, so english is the medium n students get to learn/study their own mother tongue as a language subject. However, to enter a local U, to pass the language subject is compulsory. Many Singaporean chinese complaint cos Mandarin is a very difficult subject to pass. But the goverment just ignore their pleas ..But if this situation is in malaysia and happen to be a malay, do u know what Kerismudin will do? For u guys to find out.
#5 by kurakura on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:58 am
This will come in handy :)
—————————————————————-
Oct 11, 2006
THE MALAYSIAN MALAY by Dr Syed Alwi of Singapore
Dear Editor,
As you know, I am an avid watcher of Malaysian affairs. I must confess that lately, Malaysia appears to be failing. Not a day passes by without more events that clearly highlight Malaysia’s race-religion fault-line. If things keep going this way, I fear for Malaysia’s future.
Today, schools in Singapore celebrate Racial Harmony Day. I can visibly see the joy in the children’s faces as they wear their ethnic costumes and have fun together at school. But in Malaysia – even the right to choose a religion has become a sensitive, national issue. No doubt, there are many
in Malaysia who hate my liberal views on Islam, family included. But I will say what I must say openly. I have come to the conclusion that Malaysia
cannot progress any further without first addressing fundamental questions regarding its identity and soul.
I remember the days when we can laugh at Lat’s cartoons on everyday Malaysian life. But sadly, the Islamic tide has polarised Malaysians. Some
people ask why I should bother about Malaysian affairs since I am a Singaporean. May I remind Malaysians that it was Tan Siew Sin who once said
that Singapore and Malaysia are Siamese Twins. Should Malaysia go down – it would hurt the region tremendously. Especially Singapore.
Where do you think Malay apostates would head for if Lina Joy loses her case? Singapore of course! I find the Malaysian Malay to be very under-exposed. For them, it’s all Islam and the NEP and everything under the sun would sort itself out. I am sorry to say this – but Islam and the NEP may be the cause of the undoing of the Malaysian Malay.
There is nothing wrong with religion or affirmative action. But, like everything else in life, they must be taken in moderation and with a pinch
of salt. A little doubt is good. Unfortunately in Malaysia, emotions over Islam have overcome reason. What we see today is the result of the NEP and
Islamisation policies of the past thirty years or so.
No one owes Malaysian Malays a living. Let me assure you that should Malaysia fail – the Malaysian Malay will suffer enormously. And rightly so. After all – they have been pampered with all sorts of goodies over the years. They cannot now expect more goodies. Perhaps the day of reckoning
for them, is near. Whatever it is, Malaysia had better wake up to the realities around her. The globalised world of the 21st century has no NEP
to offer the Malaysian Malay. And humans cannot live by religion alone.
Regards,
Dr Syed Alwi
[Kit - Thanks for posting this piece by Dr. Syed Alwi. For easy reference, this is the Malaysiakini piece by Baki referred to by Richard Teo:]
#6 by kurakura on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:07 am
I cant seem to post the article here.
Here’s the link anyway.
http://lifeinside.wordpress.com/2006/10/19/malaysian-blues/
#7 by firstMalaysian on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:17 am
Under the environment of meritocracy, I attest to say that Singapore Malays have progressed very well. In fact, in Singapore Universities, they are one of the best in terms of their articulation skills and their persistence in their self improvement and career growth. They are one of the best in private banking business. I am very proud of them.
In a globalised economy, all must be in the same playing field and the weak should be taught ‘ how to fish’ and not to give them the ‘fish’
The strong should be given opportunities to keep on improving so that the weak can also benefit from it and catch up with the rest. There should be no losers under the Malaysian sun.
Let us build a Malaysian Malaysia where everyone has a place to contribute. Let us get rid of ‘racial’ politics and grow as matured nation as one people and one nation.
Malaysia is one of the ‘awkward’ nation having political parties, operating under racial lines. Dato Oon Jaafar saw this danger 50 yrs ago. I salute his farsightedness.
Let us bring back the true spirit of Merdeka, the fight for independence by all Malaysians, the struggle against Japanese Imperial forces, the struggle against communist insurgency, the defense of the nation by all during the Indonesian confrontation, defending the ‘glory’ of Malaysia through sports, and the achievement of Malaysians in science and technology overseas and at home.
I wish our leaders have a heart as a Malaysian, think like a Malaysian, behave like a Malaysian, serve like a Malaysian, feel like a Malaysian and speak like a Malaysian to defend the poor.
#8 by kurakura on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:30 am
Malaysian Malaysia was championed by Lee Kuan Yew more than 40 yrs ago and he got kicked out because of that.
Singapore, a tiny country on the verge of dying with no military, no natural resources whatsoever is coming back to haunt and shadow us 40 yrs later. What a shame. Check out the new downtown (marina bay) they are developing there if any of you are interested. One would wonder how they could be so farsighted, so efficient, so organised. I would say it is because of meritocracy. The best deserves to perform the job.
I have Singaporean Malays as friends and they are Muslims. And we can drink and eat together in the public. If the place serves alcohol, they just drink something else. In Malaysia, we do not get to do that because of excessive stigma and overzealous religious officers.
#9 by fido on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:55 am
It’s really sick to see this going on and on….
I have live and worked in Spore and also many other countries before and I have a great number of friends including Sporean Malays…they are so different….in fact the exact opposite of those here. They are progressing in tandem with Spore’s development…not like here. After 50 years, where is Malaysia heading?
It’s not what needs to be said,plenty have been said by many.
What is missing is the CORRECT action plans.
There’s too many uneducated and low education lot here, which makes it very easy to fish for votes. We talked abt eradicating poverty 50 years ago, today we are still taking abt this. We have not made progress, perhaps it’s intentionally??
#10 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:55 am
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE RICHARD TEO’S RESPONSE TO THIS.
The Singapore Malays make up about 10% of the total population in Singapore. Over the last century or two, Malays were attracted to Singapore the same way Mexicans are today attracted to the United States – in search of a better life, and to escape the economically depressed living conditions from where they came from i.e. mostly Java, Sumatra including Peninsular Malaya. You find them in the police and the armed forces but in the lower ranking positions because they knew very little English. After independence this preponderance of the Malays in the police and armed forces was regarded as a potential threat to the security of Singapore and efforts were made to have their composition more representative. Malays were excluded from holding higher positions in police and the armed forces.
Today you find many of them working in factories of multinationals which paid little attention to ethnicity. They could not find employment as easily as the Chinese in the private sector, in small-scale Chinese shops etc which dominated the economy into the 60s, and again because they do not speak Chinese.
Their birth rate and death rates tended to be high in the 1940s until recently. Their women were working at home until recently which was a major social change.
Malay fishing communities in the outlying islands over time tended to lose their population as Malays began to move to Singapore attracted by the bright urban lights and in search of unskilled jobs which offered higher level incomes than fishing.
Because of the different socio-economic conditions affecting them, the Malays find themselves occupying the bottom rungs of Singapore society. They still do. There is a correlation between ethnicity and class presenting a potential threat to social stability – much like that we see in the 60s and 70s in Malaysia. The Malays in Singapore have an average of 70% of those of Chinese, a higher crime rate and a higher drug addiction rate. Recent census shows some 90% of the Malay workforce was in the clerical, service and production sector, 50% of all employed Malays worked on assembly lines, largely in foreign owned electronic factories – but only 5% of professional and technical workers and less than 2% of managerial personnel.
Does the Singapore government have anything like the NEP to help the Chinese? No. Does it need to have such a policy? No.
The marketplace does it more efficiently than any policy the Singapore government could have in its arsenal.
#11 by Jonny on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:59 am
Read the Baki’s article. It’s TOTAL CRAP.
The Malaysian Chinese listed on top of richest – they’re by-products of NEP and helped be put up there.
By far, the opportunities allude the majority Malays. As well as non-Malay Bumiputras. (Not all bumiputras are well-off. Just look at Sarawak and Sabah – white elephants and white-spread broad daylight robberies everywhere). Corruption as mentioned by Tun is really above the table.
I found the Penang Malays interestingly more Singaporean feel. They do eat in Oldtown Kopitiam. And other western food shops opened by Chinese. These are all halal food. But I do not see such happening elsewhere except for Sabah/Sarawak (But times are changing as the UMNO wind of change is eating into both state’s resources – followed closely by MCA of course and local parties which betray’s the rakyat’s trust).
If things goes on like this, the Malay’s will find themselves dying soon, burried by their own trusted politicians for the sake of RM150 or so vote-buying and other open bribery.
Uncle Kit, take a look at this YouTube. Not sure how true this is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJSJM2ndbSo
If this is true, we’re all doomed. When the Malays sink, we are all going to sink together as well as a nation and country.
#12 by sotong on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:03 am
In Singapore, if you are not prepared to work very hard and sacrified your personal and family life – not matter what race you are, including Europeans – you will be left behind.
I supposed Baki had not worked in Singapore or worked for a Singaporean. The Singaporeans’ work culture is very strong and competition very intense.
Only the most hard working and tough people made it in that environment.
#13 by Godfather on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:07 am
Singapore will always be a thorn in the side of Malaysian Malays – simply because deep down inside, they could never figure out how a small dot with no natural resources could end up with a per capita income 6 times that of Bodohland.
#14 by Godfather on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:21 am
The Malaysian Chinese are listed as some of the richest because they pay taxes, and they declare what they have. This is unlike the rich Malays who accumulate through nepotism and cronyism, in many cases through simply dipping their hands into the country’s coffers. Ask where is Daim, or the AP Kings, or Kamaluddin Abdullah, or Muhyiddin or Najib or Jamaluddin Jarjis in the list of the richest in Malaysia.
#15 by HJ Angus on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:31 am
I think there are some Singaporean Malays who do envy their relatives here as if you are well connected, there are more goodies to be enjoyed in Malaysia like housing discounts even though you may be a millionaire.
But to claim that Chinese in Malaysia are better off then Malays in Singapore should be considered as the most unfounded statement to enter the Guiness Book of World Records.
Just one small example:
In Singapore if you study hard and get good results you are almost certain to get a place in the local university at subsidised rates and that applies to all races.
#16 by Loh on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:33 am
PM Abdullah said at the press conference after the UMNO supreme Council meeting last night that he would ask MCA and Gerakan why Chinese voters in Ijok did not support BN, and he said there must be reasons.
So, the PM was either from Mars, or is deaf and blind, so that he does not know why the Chinese in Malaysia do not willingly vote for BN, if they had to. He needs only to read this blog for a week and he would know very well that the socalled racial harmony in this country is paper thin.
PM Abdullah cannot claim to be of average intelligence if he could not even understand that the Chinese simply do not feel that they are treated as equal citizens in this country, and consequently it is only natural that the Chinese would only care to look after themselves, and not even the community, and much less the country which they do not feel that they have a share at all. This is the results of government policies that have divided the country.
The British would not have granted independence to Malaya if not for the compromise arrived at among the leaders of the the main communitites. Malaysia might have been better off to remain a colony, since then the number of first class citizens would only be a few hundred british officers. We can at least be sure that under the British, Malaysia would have been as well adminstered as that for Singapore, and we can be sure that crime rate would not be as high as it is today.
What have independence brought to Malaysia. It allowed the UMNO ministers to plunder the land. In providing crutches to Bumiputras, it weaken the Malay ‘race’ and make them dependent on UMNO to stay into power at all times. That allowed UMNO ministers to enrich themselves so that Malays would feel proud that people of their ‘community’ can be rich, and in the process the country becomes poor.
Are Malaysians loyal to the country? When the leaders do not make the people in the country feel that they have a share in the destiny of the nation, the people cannot develop a sense of loyalty to this land. We are lucky that there is not invasion.
When this land is invaded, it will be overrun in no time. The weapon systems are here for decoration only, and the transport equipment, the tanks, the fighter jets and the warships are equipment for pleasure rides. Since the people in the arm forces are made to feel that there are there because of entitlement, just like the civil servants, they are not there to do a job expected of them. So, the country would just surrender and becomes a colony when there is war. So, it might have been better for this land to remain a colony. At least it would have been cheaper to oursource the administration to a colonial master, and the people would still have a higher standard of living, with peace and security assured. But, we have our independence, and the people who have benefited from it would not give up. In fact, if they are not lazy, they could attract votes from the Malays without alineating the non-Malays. For that UMNO has to stop the divide and rule strategy. But they are too lazy, if not too greedy.
#17 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:38 am
Question:
1) Have you ever heard of any Singapore Malays with straight A’s denied entry to their public universities because of a race quota? No, on the contrary, even Malaysians, Indonesians, Vietnamese etc with straight A’s have been admitted into S’porean public universities.
2) Have you ever heard of any Singapore Malays being asked to give up 30% equity in their business, even very mundane and simple businesses, to Singaporean Chinese simply because of any equivalent to the Malaysian race-based NEP policy? NEVER!
3) Does Singapore practise open meritocracy in its civil service as compared to Malaysia? Out of the almost 50 Director-Generals of ministries in Malaysia, only 2 or 3 are Chinese and Indians? Out of the hundred or more Deans in the country’s public universities, probably 3 to 5 are Chinese or Indians? Where these are non-Malays, the job specs or fields of study are either too technical or the workload too tough for the malays!!!
Need I ask more? Need I say more? I rest my case. Welcome to Modern Apartheid Malaysia.
#18 by kurakura on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:50 am
Quoted from HJ Augus
I think there are some Singaporean Malays who do envy their relatives here as if you are well connected, there are more goodies to be enjoyed in Malaysia like housing discounts even though you may be a millionaire
————————————————————
Even millionaires can have housing discounts. This shows that NEP is not eradicating poverty regardless of race. It’s just a racial discrimination machine. Tak Malu kah? How can they sleep at night?
In fact in Singapore, some Chinese are complaining because some public flats are reserved for malays to ensure proper racial mix for the benefit of the nation.
Can malay leaders of malaysia do that?
#19 by sotong on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:58 am
Baki, as with many Malays, is in a constant denial of reality.
They want to see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.
#20 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 10:59 am
I’m 100% sure that DAP and PKR lose because the Malay still want NEP. I still remember Anwar Ibrahim said NEP is bad and want BN to do away with it. I think with that, his political career is gone. I can 100% guarantee only 1% Malay don’t want NEP. While 99% still want the crutch. Why not? Its free anyway. :)
#21 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:01 am
And by the way, if opposition leader still said down with NEP, I believe, in the next election, BN will still win 90% of the vote. :)
#22 by sotong on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:05 am
Everybody knows Malays do not have a strong work culture!
#23 by HJ Angus on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:09 am
I think we should not make generalisations like the above.
There are many Malays who are working very hard to survive.
Only those in the privileged crony class do not want to work hard.
After all so much is being offered to the privileged that they can live like new royalty. Just look at some of their “palaces” and toys.
#24 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:25 am
Eventhough some Malay work very hard for it, they still think NEP is good for them. Funny. They don’t get a thing from NEP (except 7% house discount even though they couldn’t afford it), they still support NEP. But probably, as long as they think NEP is for Malay, well, they’ll still support it.
Maybe opposition can try with NEP+. And then tell the Malay, opposition support NEP with + sign. Means, all goodies go to the under privilege. And only applicable to those have low income. All high income no more NEP :)
And possible, the Malay support it so that there’s a super rich Malay. As long as there’s very rich Malay, they actually feel happy even though the poor Malay didn’t get a thing. Maybe this thing is matter of pride. But getting there with crutch, is there a pride?
#25 by pulau_sibu on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:29 am
From the bottom of my heart, the status of the Malays in singapore should be improved. I also think they tend not to express much view since they are the minority. But their situation is not as bad.
In boleh, Chinese have to speak out because we are being bullied quite a lot compared to Malay in Singapore.
Satisfaction:
Singaporean Chinese>Malaysian Chinese>Singaporean Malay
#26 by smeagroo on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:29 am
Baki is just the saki-baki of the remaining golden child brought up with a spoon right in his mouth.
#27 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:34 am
Tribalism is a trait of humans and therefore I would expect there is racism amongst majority populace everywhere – its a matter of degree. The question is whether the government of a particular place by its policies is enlightened enough to know that it is wrong and think of ways including enforcement of laws, without favour, to resolve and curb its ugly manifestation.
The Singapore government is enlightened to promulgate laws promoting meritocracy irrespective of race. (Even here meritocracy does not extend the sensitive top positions of air force and army). Otherwise its policies are in sharp contrast to those here where the laws institutionalize different treatment for different racial/religious groups.
‘Marginalisation’ as a term refers to a group that is sidelined and left behind and disadvantaged, even if laws are based on meritocracy and are of equal application. Marginalisation is also different from racism. Whites can be racists in their hearts but their laws prohibit this and do influence and educate at least some to suppress this racist inclination. At the same time, when laws prohibiting racism by majority group are enforced, as in Singapore or the US, this does not mean certain minority group cannot end up being marginalized.
Equally laws that discriminate on race like here are wrong and may be oppressive to minority groups here but does not necessarily translate to their marginalisation (oppression being distinct from marginalisation) if because of these, the minority groups here become more competitive and in the process improve their socio-economic conditions. If laws like these permanently remove the edge of competitiveness amongst the target group that they help and disadvantage them in the longer process, they may also be viewed – stretching such a term – as ‘marginalizing’ the very group that they supposedly help to improve.
The fact that Singapore’s laws and policies are premised on equality and merits does not necessarily preclude a particular minority group like Malays or Indians to be marginalized. Here the blame is not on the government actively doing anything to put the minorities down or shove the Chinese majority up (as the government here actively shoves the Bumiputra group up) but simply not doing enough by way of not just affirmative policies but sufficiently aggressive affirmative policies to address what is called, in Dr Mahathir’s words, the ‘cultural deficit’ syndrome where he said that the Malays are constrained by their culture, to be less inclined towards competition and more inclined towards a sedate lifestyle. If there is no cultural level field, the fact that there are equal educational or economic playing fields does not necessarily translate to a situation where Malays will not be marginalized over the longer run. (It must be stressed that whether one is marginalised or not is not an absolute concept but a relative one compared to other groups! The fact that a Singaporean Malay with straight As can get admitted to the best universities in Singapore unlike the non Malay counterpart here does not address marginalisation if culturally the Malays are handicapped in not being competitive to get straight As at all).
To be sure, the Singapore government is having affirmative programs to help the Malays; it has to strike a balance to make sure that these programs will not turn into permanent crutches which reinforce rather than correct the so called ‘cultural deficit’ syndrome, as increasingly an over aggressive affirmative program over this side of the Causeway has done so, as admitted by present premier and his predecessor. It is always the question of balance : how much of medicine for the cultural ailment so to speak. And it is not only culture, as a minority they have to do even better because a Chinese employer may have a racist criteria but like the white he is not going to admit it openly.
But what is enough or not enough to reverse the marginalisation of Malays there is of course a matter of debate. But to say that there is no marginalisation of Malays in Singapore (by reasons of meritocracy and equal laws) is not accurate in the context of ‘cultural deficit’ syndrome, and it is certainly not for people like you and I or people like Mr Richard Teo to say.
Let a few of Singapore Malays come here and say how they see it : that would be nearer the truth. The fact that you don’t hear complaints from them in Singapore counts not much when it is generally true that the Singapore government is even more restrictive than the Malaysian government on the Freedom of Expression and Speech and marks any talk of race as ‘out of bound’ in relation to which not only the 13% Malay minority dare not speak public their minds, but also the majority of Chinese/Singaporeans!
Then the argument is put forth “If S’pore Malays are really worse off in Singapore why is there no exodus of Malays from S’pore to Malaysia?â€Â
There is no exodus because people don’t live their homes unless the oppression is unbearable. Maybe the Malays like the more efficient system of government in terms of public delivery, comparative lack of the more blatant forms of corruption, education, safety in terms of freedom from crime and public transportation there – it does not mean they do not feel marginalized or are actually not marginalized – but even if marginalized they may, on balance, fare objectively better than the majority of their poorer cousins of same race over here (politically connected ones, excepted).
One can criticize the Singapore government in terms of the marginalisation of minority groups particularly the Malays but for that, according to Lee Kuan Yew you better have a locus standi and be a Singaporean or else shut up. One can also amply criticize the Malaysian government here for its deliberate and institutionalized marginalisation of minority groups. The criticisms may be leveled on a standalone basis each separate from the other. To use one to justify and contradict the other’s management of race relations is to unnecessarily confuse the issues because you are not comparing like with like.
The marginalisation of Malays there should not be compared with marginalisation of non bumiputras here.
There Malay marginalisation arises from not enough being done for them but here too much has been done for Bumi at the expense of non bumi that only marginalizes non bumi, it also marginalizes the bulk of the bumis not having the requisite connections and it marginalizes the whole country in context of the Global scene and competitors.
#28 by bbtan on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:37 am
Instead of the crutch, the Singapore Malays have this thingy called MENDAKI to help the poorer Malays. Part of this self help organization budget is financed by the Singapore Government. Is this discrimination or what?
#29 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:38 am
Malaysian Chinese>Singaporean Malay
Are you sure? Do they have 7% house incentive for Singaporean Chinese? Do they have Kem Bina Negara specially for Chinese Singaporean while in University? Do they must give contract to Chinese Singaporean? Do they crush down all mosque while building temple church all around? Do they have special unit trust that give a lot of return just for Chinese Singaporean? Do the Singaporean Chinese hold up a sword and chant something malicious?
How can you said Malaysian Chinese>Singaporean Malay?
I’m disgusted with all things Malaysian.
#30 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:41 am
Typo correction in last para : ….. “but here too much has been done for Bumi at the expense of non bumi that NOT only marginalizes non bumionly marginalizes non bumi BUT it also…”
#31 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:42 am
# bbtan Says:
May 1st, 2007 at 11:37 am
Instead of the crutch, the Singapore Malays have this thingy called MENDAKI to help the poorer Malays. Part of this self help organization budget is financed by the Singapore Government. Is this discrimination or what?
OMG, if this the case, I’m totally disgusted with Malaysian government. Even Singapore help Malay which is minority. But in Malaysia, Chinese is marginalize by majority. Go figure….
I believe Malaysia is going down sooner than we expected. But I won’t run. I have no where to go. Malaysia is still my country. But Malaysia is not treating me as their countrymen. I feel like 2nd class citizen.
#32 by pamelaoda on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:43 am
Godfather Says:
May 1st, 2007 at 10:21 am
The Malaysian Chinese are listed as some of the richest because they pay taxes, and they declare what they have. This is unlike the rich Malays who accumulate through nepotism and cronyism, in many cases through simply dipping their hands into the country’s coffers. Ask where is Daim, or the AP Kings, or Kamaluddin Abdullah, or Muhyiddin or Najib or Jamaluddin Jarjis in the list of the richest in Mala
Haf true, tis bcos they biz hence they need to declare but how much r they declaring, I m not sure? BUT i m very sure politicians aint utter a word about $ they r hiding be it UMNO, MCA or long list la..
#33 by pulau_sibu on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:57 am
how many malay ministers are there in Singapore compared to Chinese ministers in Malaysia? do you think it is justified based on the ratio of population?
#34 by bbtan on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 11:57 am
“There(Singapore), Malay marginalisation arises from not enough being done for them…”
The person who said this obviously has not heard of MENDAKI.
#35 by hasilox on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 12:15 pm
Baki says:
“I have always blamed Umno for not helping our Malay brethren in Singapore..”
Does Baki know that umno was rejected completely by the malays in spore in 1963 GE? Not a single umno’s candidate nor umno-supported candidate was elected even in malay dominated areas. Racist politics won’t work in spore.
Does Baki know that spore malays do not need to pay school/university fees while, many others have to pay using bank loans? This is how affirmative policy should be used to help the different races. The racist-crony system practiced in msia is a sure way to destruction. Once there isn’t enough oil to fuel the gravy train, the malays as well as the non-malays will be in serious trouble.
Does Baki know that both ‘singapore idol’ tv singing contest conducted so far, were won by malays? The voting public, mostly youngsters, were of all races but majority are chinese due to the race composition. Spreans are coming together as a nation. But, where are we?
Baki, compare the living standard of spore malays with that of msia malays as a whole. Comparing the few cronies with the ordinary spore malays is an illogical comparison.
#36 by pamelaoda on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 12:27 pm
Singaporeans addressed themselves as simple as I m a Singaporean. Period! My British Hongkongites friend also address herself as a British and I cannot find a chinese british or chinese in her passport la. Japan even worst, I need to change my chinese name to a jap one should I consider to take up citizenship here…B ut no way, i loves Malaysia so much!
#37 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 1:11 pm
I have stayed before in Singapore and know about Mendaki (Council on Education for Muslim Children) set up by the Singapore government, with their funding model sanctioned by law. It has representatives from social, literary and cultural groups and PAP Malay parliamentarians. It is premised upon self-help amongst Malay community. But is it much of an affirmative program for Malays when they also have the Chinese equivalent, Chinese Development Assistance Council or CDAC, and the Indian equivalent SINDA? Community self help is good but to have it predicated on race and yet talk of racial harmony?
If one say Malay students have made significant improvements in their educational achievements over the years which had, it not been for Mendaki, the situation would be worse, and if you say that the Singapore government does not hamper those Malays who make an effort and on basis of meritocracy get their places in universities, all these are agreed of which there is no dispute.
But if you catch the drift of argument earlier, marginalisation is a relative concept comparing the progress of one group against other groups and the key question that can empirically be reasonably established is this : whether it is true or not that Malays are still lagging in socio-economic terms behind the main ethnic community in Singapore. If you say “no†they are not lagging behind, then there is nothing to debate here. If you agree that they are lagging behind, but there are programs for them like Mendaki, then the question is whether that is doing enough on Singapore govt’s part… Are programs like Mendaki sufficient to overcome the “cultural deficit syndrome†? I think minorities expect more aggressive affirmative action and help to overcome not that deficit but the innate tendency of majority group (say) employers and business customers to exclude on basis of race without admitting it. (Only in Malaysia we do the opposite of giving aggressive affirmative help to the majority rather than minorities).
If one thinks no more may be done in light of Singapore Meritocratic culture, those deserving are already helped, the rest, are non deserving, and cultural deficit syndrome is not a ground and in fact a bad excuse, then again a line based on value judgment has been drawn and there is nothing more to say.
Whether Malay minorities are marginalized in terms of socio-economically lagging behind the main majority group can be ascertained – but whether sufficient programmes like Mendaki have been put in place to correct this lagging or whether more affirmative help should be given is, t I believe, the real question under debate and contention.
#38 by sotong on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 1:57 pm
The S’pore Malays do not have to endure threats of aggression, hatred and violence faced by the Chinese in M’sia by some politicians/criminals.
#39 by dawsheng on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 2:11 pm
When Lee Kuan Yew said the chinese in Malaysia has been systemactically marginalized, it was only half truth. The other half was, although malaysian chinese has been marginalized, they have outperformed in almost every level despite the unlevel playing field. Let us compares singaporean chinese and malaysian chinese, who do you think is a much stronger species?
#40 by Not spoon fed on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 2:24 pm
Singapore Chinese is much better than Malaysian Chinese giving the the state is resourceless – there is no timber, rubber, palm oil, etc.
Singapore Chinese leaders like Mr Lee Kuan Yew is much much talented than Malaysian all Chinese leaders who are relying much on the UMNO.
The country achievement speaks of itself as a world class country. Even a small Penang state could hardly excel in many things under the control of UMNO.
UMNO should give Khairy, an Oxford graduate, to lead Penang because he said Malay in Penang has been marginalised by Penang state government.
#41 by sotong on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 3:53 pm
All Malaysians should not deny the ordinary bumi their way of life and protection of their unique culture and traditions for the benefit of generations to come.
#42 by japankiller on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 5:52 pm
The only group of Malay i could pay respect to is Singapore Malay, either they are doing good or they are not as good as Malaysia Malay do.
Because they can survive, yet without asking from their goverment. They are brave…Malaysia Malay please learn something good from them.
#43 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:02 pm
COULD READERS HAVE A RESPONSE TO THE FOLLOWING:
The Singapore Malays make up about 10% of the total population in Singapore. Over the last century or two, Malays were attracted to Singapore the same way Mexicans are today attracted to the United States – in search of a better life, and to escape the economically depressed living conditions from where they came from i.e. mostly Java, Sumatra including Peninsular Malaya. You find them in the police and the armed forces but in the lower ranking positions because they knew very little English. After independence this preponderance of the Malays in the police and armed forces was regarded as a potential threat to the security of Singapore and efforts were made to have their composition more representative. Malays were excluded from holding higher positions in police and the armed forces.
Today you find many of them working in factories of multinationals which paid little attention to ethnicity. They could not find employment as easily as the Chinese in the private sector, in small-scale Chinese shops etc which dominated the economy into the 60s, and again because they do not speak Chinese.
Their birth rate and death rates tended to be high in the 1940s until recently. Their women were working at home until recently which was a major social change.
Malay fishing communities in the outlying islands over time tended to lose their population as Malays began to move to Singapore attracted by the bright urban lights and in search of unskilled jobs which offered higher level incomes than fishing.
Because of the different socio-economic conditions affecting them, the Malays find themselves occupying the bottom rungs of Singapore society. They still do. There is a correlation between ethnicity and class presenting a potential threat to social stability – much like that we see in the 60s and 70s in Malaysia. The Malays in Singapore have an average of 70% of those of Chinese, a higher crime rate and a higher drug addiction rate. Recent census shows some 90% of the Malay workforce was in the clerical, service and production sector, 50% of all employed Malays worked on assembly lines, largely in foreign owned electronic factories – but only 5% of professional and technical workers and less than 2% of managerial personnel.
Does the Singapore government have anything like the NEP to help the Chinese? No. Does it need to have such a policy? No.
The marketplace does it more efficiently than any policy the Singapore government could have in its arsenal.
#44 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:39 pm
Malays in Singapore could perhaps be compared to Mexicans and other Hispanics living in the shadows in the United States. Of course no one is suggesting that Malays in Singapore are anything but citizens of Singapore. An interesting parallel nevertheless could be drawn between the two i.e. in their struggles to fit in and in their fight to survive an ‘alien’ environment to support their families. The Malays in Singapore are not illegal immigrants from Java though some may still be. They are not living in shadows unlike their counterparts in the United States but are legal residents and citizens – which therefore rather than dilute the problems serves to augment them.
The fact is if there was an open border policy between the two, you’ll find a flood of Malays from the neighboring islands moving to Singapore to take on better employment mostly in its factories and to take up menial jobs. This serves to augment the phenomenon that we saw in neighboring Malaysia most acute in the 50s, 60s and 70s – which is the identification of race with economic functions, a threat to the social stability of any nation and not just Malaysia and Singapore.
Identification of race with economic functions is true today as it was in the past in this island nation. How much has the Singapore government done to reduce the threat of social instability as a result of this decades old phenomenon?
There are Singapore Malays like the late Prof. Ahmad Ibrahim who have done their race proud. He was a Queens Scholar, a double first in Cambridge, a Crown Counsel and the first Attorney-General of Singapore – who later migrated to Malaysia after its separation to serve later as Dean of the Faculty of Law, University of Malaya. His rise had nothing to do with any affirmative action policy in place in the colonial administration.
But how many from any race have his IQ? I have met Malay lawyers from Singapore who lamented about not having the same opportunities as their Chinese counterparts, bitter about their experiences – and that, after having walked the same halls of elite universities in the U.K.
#45 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:39 pm
# sotong Says:
May 1st, 2007 at 3:53 pm
All Malaysians should not deny the ordinary bumi their way of life and protection of their unique culture and traditions for the benefit of generations to come.
What are you talking about? Are you blur sotong? What does the ordinary bumi way of life and their unique culture and traditions has to do with marginalization of Chinese? Either you’re talking crap or you mean that so called “ordinary bumi way of life and their unique culture and traditions” actually means the crutch.
#46 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 8:48 pm
“# undergrad2 Says:
May 1st, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Malays in Singapore could perhaps be compared to Mexicans and other Hispanics living in the shadows in the United States.
But how many from any race have his IQ? I have met Malay lawyers from Singapore who lamented about not having the same opportunities as their Chinese counterparts, bitter about their experiences – and that, after having walked the same halls of elite universities in the U.K.”
Wow, Malay Singapore compare to Mexican in US? Why don’t compare with Chinese in US? Chinese is the minority in US. Mexican is already there long time ago. Anyhow, everyone is given a chance to succeed. Jennifer Lopez is Mexican-American. So what are you trying to say here?
And by the way, not every Chinese is born brilliant. Some is hardcore poor and very not that brilliant. Are you saying Malay is not as brilliant as Chinese? Come on. I see a Malay who is 100x more brilliant than me. All are sent to US/UK to study.
#47 by Loh on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:28 pm
I am not sure whether the statistics quoted about the distribution of economic activities among the Malays in Singapore were from official sources. I doubt very much, since only in Malaysia are statistics by race the most important subject.
One thing we know for certain, Sinaporean Malays contribute to its society, and they lead respectable lives without waiting for handouts from the government, or concessions from other communities. However successful they are in life, they answer only to themselves, and unlike in Bolehland, Malays in Singapore bear no responsibility to make its race proud, and would not need to steal or cheat to attain the so-called successful status.
It is a basic human right that people are free to choose the agenda they wish for life. Singaporean Malays are not made to be parasites to their society, and they stand without crutches.
Obviously, men are never born equal when one measures it from any particular characteristics alone, for example, intelligence, good look, weath born into, and there can never be an accepted weight to assign to the various characteristics to compile a human-equality index. Indeed what good is this index when happiness is almost the ultimate aim in life? And for some, there might be some other ambitions that they choose to attain in life, such as to be remembered in history.
So, when affirmative actions aim at trying to correct statistical situations of any community, it is bound to create problems when the authority tries to play God. The authority should help those who are less able to provide the basics needs for themselves, commonly called the poor, financially. The authority should provide an environment so that those who choose to progress could reach their utmost potential. But it is not the business of the government to set a target for its people to achieve, or to interfere in what the people consider their choice of happiness.
Singaporean Malays are luckier than Malays in Bolehland in some ways. For example, when you meet a Singaporean Malay professor, you will not doubt that he is truly a qualified person; we cannot take it for granted about Malay professors here. The VC of MU felt it and commented that she is a VC because she was good. Well, whether she is good or not, we cannot judge it because of her appointment; we would have accepted that without doubt has she been appointed a VC in Singapore. So, when other races can be proud of their achievements in academic or other fields, the Malays in Bolahland do not get that recognition as a matter of course. Yes, only some Malays do not deserve the recognition, but that created doubts.
The Malays in general are made to appear to be weak and needing crutches, and in their names a few connected persons amass fortune. The APs scheme was part of NEP, but only a handful is enjoying the fortune, and all the Malays have to slave to pay high price for rotten Proton, or any other makes when taxes are raised to let Proton survive. Again only a few suppliers to Proton are laughing to the bank when all proton users suffer. The Malays are not even allowed to complain against APs or Proton, if they want to avoid being called ungrateful or traitors.
Singaporean Malays are proud to be known first as Singaporean, and then Malays. If they are known as Malays they would hasten to clarify that they are Singaporeans to indicate that they do not belong to the parasite class.
TDM commented that Singapore do not have top Malay army personnel. To him the position brought pride to the incumbent, rather than a responsibility he is expected to shoulder. Perhaps in Malaysian context, a top army personnel might get kickbacks for weapon purchase, and TDM actually lamented on the loss of money making opportunity to Malays. MM Lee commented that it would place a Malay top military personnel in a difficult emotional trap when it was his responsibility to protect Singapore against potential invasion mounted by Malaysia or Indonesia. To MM Lee, the position of the top military personnel has to perform an expected duty, and it is important that the job get done, rather than the person doing it. And when there is a likelihood that Malays might have emotional baggage doing the job, it was best that they pursue their greatest potential elsewhere. We do not hear rational explanation when all the top places in civil service, in the arm forces and in the academic institutions in Bolehland are monopolised by Malays. Yes, the real reason is ketuanan Melayu.
#48 by kurakura on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:38 pm
Quoted from kelangman88:
And by the way, not every Chinese is born brilliant. Some is hardcore poor and very not that brilliant. Are you saying Malay is not as brilliant as Chinese? Come on. I see a Malay who is 100x more brilliant than me. All are sent to US/UK to study.
——————————————————
Do u know that scholarship selections are also racially bias?
So what if they are sent to the US/UK? Most universities there do not have the standards and are much easier to pass compared to regional best like NUS and NTU (sadly, in this region these are the only two). Getting admitted Singapore universities are much harder than most if not all US/UK universities. I have heard so many stories from Singaporeans that they will go overseas if they cant secure local Uni admissions(of course they are some rich ones who do not want to study locally) Personally I have a friend who got into London School of Economics(overated) , which is one of the best uni in alot of people’s eyes. She got admitted into law school there and with her results, she could not even an interview with NUS law school. Another friend who was on exchange to Wharton Business School at UPenn claimed it was much easier to score there compared to Singapore. And alot more stories consistently suggest so.
If sholarship are given based on merit, the number of Malays given scholarship will perhaps be reduced by 95pc if not more.
They are not stupid. The crutches just make them uncompetative.
Any race will be uncompetative under the same circumstances.
#49 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:50 pm
“Wow, Malay Singapore compare to Mexican in US? Why don’t compare with Chinese in US? Chinese is the minority in US. Mexican is already there long time ago. Anyhow, everyone is given a chance to succeed. Jennifer Lopez is Mexican-American. So what are you trying to say here?” kelangman88
I made the comparison fully aware that I would draw this kind of reaction. I was therefore careful to make the necessary caveats. It is only fair that you do not quote statements out of context.
“Mexican is already there long time ago.” kelangman88
California, New Mexico and Texas once were Mexican territories. Singapore too was once Malay territory. I expect this statement to draw flak from readers. These are statements of facts. Do not read anything into that.
“Jennifer Lopez is Mexican-American. So what are you trying to say here?” kelangman88
I am no fan of Jennifer Lopez. I am not sure if she is Mexican – but I do know that she is a Latino. There are many stories of ‘rags to riches’ but mostly for those who make acting or singing their career. Where else could you hope to make USDLS20 million for a few years work as an actor or actress if not in Hollywood.
“Anyhow, everyone is given a chance to succeed.” kelangman88
That’s what they tell you. Don’t just talk to the few who are rocket scientists or biochemists or computer geniuses, geneticists . Talk also to the ordinary folks who never made it anywhere.
#50 by kelangman88 on Tuesday, 1 May 2007 - 9:56 pm
“That’s what they tell you. Don’t just talk to the few who are rocket scientists or biochemists or computer geniuses, geneticists . Talk also to the ordinary folks who never made it anywhere.”undergrad2
You see your flaws? Since there’s rocket scientists, biochem, etc, means someone does make it.
There’s some who does not make it. This is life. Some people are born genius. Some are not. Some are born even with deformities.
So what are you trying to say here? I don’t a single bias government policy against Mexican in US or Malay in Singapore. But the bias government policy in Malaysia is so glaring. Do you understand what is the situation currently in Malaysia? Read more ok. :)